Real Scenario just happened few hours ago - Page 3

Real Scenario just happened few hours ago

This is a discussion on Real Scenario just happened few hours ago within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by trainercb I just left my friends house. This is the full story. Here it is, for scenario preparedness: My friend walked into ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trainercb View Post
    I just left my friends house. This is the full story. Here it is, for scenario preparedness:

    My friend walked into the restroom and no one was in it. He went into a stall and locked the door. He said a man about 6'4 came in screaming and cussing and punching the stall door. My friend said he turned around to see the man's hands yanking the door down and kicking it. He said the door was flexing and bowing. The man was yelling that my friend took a picture of him and his wife. When my friend opened the door ...

    WHY did he open the door? Start screaming for someone to call 911 if not armed. Most big chain home improvement stores have no doors on the entrance to the restrooms, just a walled entryway.
    Apparently the stall door was holding. If I'm armed, and the door is holding... I'm waiting. If the door manages to give way... then I think disparity of force comes into play... this guy just ripped the stall door off, my head might be next. If there was a stall next to the one I'm in, I might have slid over to it...

    he got leveled with a solid punch to the nose. My friend was then thrown around the restroom, against walls and even in a urinal. My friend got demolished for around 11-14 minutes before the police showed up and batoned the man to get him to stop his attack. The man told the police my friend took a picture of him and his wife. When the police asked for my friend's phone, he told them that it was in his car and that they man was clearly mistaken. The police went and retrieved his phone and searched it, and of course, found no picture. The police asked if he wanted to press charges and my friend said yes.


    my friends head is severly injured. His jaw cannot close; his teeth do not touch no matter how hard he tries to close them. he said his throat hurts rediculously bad and that he feels like there are rocks in his throat. both eyes are blacked, his forehead looks like he has potatoes under his skin, and his lips and nose are 3 times their normal size.


    He is a CCW holder and "occasionally carries." If he were armed and when he was trapped in the stall, would shooting through the door have been justified after warning the man? I'm wondering what I wouldve done if I were him.

    this is creepily ironic especially how around a week ago a thread popped up about how we all need to be on alert in a public restroom and I made a joke out of it.

    stay safe guys
    I am almost always armed. This guy was a whack job. I'm really sorry for your friend's injuries... I'm sure he'll be carrying more often now. I'll even say a prayer for his complete recovery... It's a shame that good, decent people are on the cusp of extinction, and the only way we can seem to prevent our demise is to arm ourselves against "any time, any where, any body."

    Sigh.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I hope you friend will be ok, and I hope the attacker gets a long time in prison. It is a shame that it took something like this for him to take being armed seriously. OC spray, in my opinion, is a useful and essential tool in your self defense arsenal.

    I make no assumptions anymore about ANYWHERE being "safe." You can be living right down the straight and narrow being polite and courteous and with drug crazed hot heads running around everywhere and mistaken identities you just never know when someone will bring the crap to you.

    I've had 3 people lately ask if I was so and so (different names) or if I worked at so and so. When I told them no they said I had a twin around here (to which I replied I felt sorry for them). It just makes you wonder about mistaken identities. I hope these other dudes that look like me are cool and don't cause problems.
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  3. #33
    Member Array trainercb's Avatar
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    thank you all for the wishes.. I'll let him know you all are thinking of him.

    it really is sad to think about. if only you guys knew how nice this guy is. it would be like witnessing the beatdown of mr. rogers
    ”A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them..."
    -George Washington

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    I'm not able to mix it up like I use to, so a non-lethal device is about all I'd be willing to use in this circumstance.
    People have been killed by one punch,a full on beatdown is a deadly threat,aggravated battery is justification for self defense
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  5. #35
    Member Array johnmed3's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear this bro. Praying for a full recovery for your friend.

  6. #36
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Be advised that while pepper spray is a good LTL response, I would think twice about using a fog or cone type spray in such an enclosed area. That is why I always specify a stream type spray. Also, when grappling comes into play, expect cross-contamination to occur. Spraying over the top of the door might be a good option before opening the door and making an escape.
    I hope your friend seriously considers some empty hand training and recovers completely.

    Be strong!

  7. #37
    Member Array RRizzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trainercb View Post
    I just left my friends house. This is the full story. Here it is, for scenario preparedness:

    When the police asked for my friend's phone, he told them that it was in his car and that they man was clearly mistaken. The police went and retrieved his phone and searched it, and of course, found no picture. The police asked if he wanted to press charges and my friend said yes.
    This is the antagonist in me and off topic, but I don't care who was allegedly taking pictures of who. Taking pictures is not illegal, and certainly no excuse for assault/attempted murder. Nobody is searching my phone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I am also 5' 8". It is prudent to carry a non lethal alternative. Barring that, do what you gotta do. The call on when to shoot an unarmed assailant is very subjective and open to later question.
    IANAL, but this a classic example of "Disparity Of Force" If you have a less lethal option in this scenario then by all means, deploy it. But 6' 4" on 5' 8" is no where close to a fair fight. I think that a reasonable case for deadly force could be made. (I'm 6' 1" and 280, so probably not so much in my case)

    These are my thoughts, my thoughts are my opinions. And we all know about opinions.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I don't care if your friend was sleeping with another man's wife or not. That does not justify a beating like that. If the husband suspected cheating he could divorce the woman, tell them what he thought, but a beating like that is still against the law whether his spouse was sleeping around with your friend or not. ....
    So, whether or not he was sleeping with another man's wife is a moot point when it comes to self defense. He was attacked violently and had EVERY right to defend himself.

    Yes, it was his fault for not having a means to defend himself. ....
    If this escalated and I felt, at any time, my unborn baby was in jeopardy I would not hesitate to use lethal force.
    Quote Originally Posted by RRizzo View Post
    This is the antagonist in me and off topic, but I don't care who was allegedly taking pictures of who. Taking pictures is not illegal, and certainly no excuse for assault/attempted murder. Nobody is searching my phone.

    IANAL, but this a classic example of "Disparity Of Force" If you have a less lethal option in this scenario then by all means, deploy it. But 6' 4" on 5' 8" is no where close to a fair fight. I think that a reasonable case for deadly force could be made. (I'm 6' 1" and 280, so probably not so much in my case)
    Yeah, disparity of force when you're minding your own business (literally) with expectation of privacy; and you know that the threats are nonsense. Stop that. Too bad you're friend didn't have the means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    6' 4" is a lot bigger than I am. Given the opportunity I might try pistol whipping prior to shooting, assuming escape unavailable.
    Tactical challenge, here. So post-OC, you may have an opportunity to pistol whip.

    Pistols get rendered into bricks by pistol whipping with them. Then you assume that your gun still works for shooting (assuming escape unavailable)? What makes you so sure that a) pistol whipping is effective, and b) that your gun still works if 6' 4" is still ready to rock?
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  9. #39
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    What a bad scene. I always carry a gun now, you just never know. Any time I think I'm being too paranoid living in a mountain town where strangers wave at you, I think of situations like this. Being 6' 4 and 240 lbs I'd have cranked that door open and came out like a damn freight train for starters...

  10. #40
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    Why did your friend open the door? He came in swinging and punching the door..If I were in his situation I would've let him continue beatin'on it and screamed like a girl. Who knows, he could've softened up or broken a fist and If he tried to come over or under the door you could still punch'em or kick'em in the head.

    I don't mean to make light of his beating, I really hope he recovers completly but you have to make due with what you've got and he had a barrier keeping "Magilla Gorilla" away from him...and what's with the cop asking to search his phone? Was he trying to justify the beating? Sorry Dick Tracy there's nothing for you to investigate on my phone.
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    Why?? Because at the last second, the Police are minutes away.

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    And exactly how do you know which one to "whack" with a deadly weapon?
    Walking into a situation that has already unfolded WITHOUT your presence and determining who is in the right or wrong isn't exactly easy... Just sayin...
    That would be the huge guy pummeling the smaller man. It is not a matter of who is the good guy or the bad guy it is about whom is beating the other to death or near death ie endangering the life of another. Having seen a few stomping that is not real hard to determine. It is not the guy on the ground bleeding all over the place with his eyes rolled into the back of head.

    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    On the other hand, I don't care if your friend was sleeping with another man's wife or not. That does not justify a beating like that.
    Think this is the first time I have ever disagreed with anything you have said. I agree it is probably not lega but morally, emotionally, spiritually and ethically I see no problem. If someone was sleeping with my wife (will never happen) but hypothetically, yes I would divorce her and hope that she really loved the guy because he would be a carrot after I got done with him. Betrayal is one thing I have zero tolerance for. If I ever took such action I would know without a doubt that it really was happening.

    Back in the day when I was young and invincible I have had a few fights where I have handed my gun off and gotten pretty severely stomped. We used to often let each other (my bros and I) take our licks until it crossed the line before we would step in. These days I am less able to take to many hits to the melon and do heal much slower. So I would have no problem using lethal force if I thought I was going to be seriously hurt.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I saw nothing to indicate that the victim had a gun.
    That's kind of my point....
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  13. #43
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    That story reaffirms my "Always Carry" philosophy.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    They would probably be fired if they did any more.

    While I have sympathy for your friend, I have serious concern for the safety of the wife.
    If the employess could have lessened the severity of the attack by intervening, it would have been well worth losing a job over IMO.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Think this is the first time I have ever disagreed with anything you have said. I agree it is probably not lega but morally, emotionally, spiritually and ethically I see no problem. If someone was sleeping with my wife (will never happen) but hypothetically, yes I would divorce her and hope that she really loved the guy because he would be a carrot after I got done with him. Betrayal is one thing I have zero tolerance for. If I ever took such action I would know without a doubt that it really was happening.
    Like I said in my original post.. even if you can understand why someone would do something in retaliation for suspected (or confirmed) infidelity, it still does not justify the act legally... it's not legal to severely beat the person you think (or have confirmed) is sleeping with your spouse.

    It's called assault and you will loose your permit to carry and possibly your freedom. It's not worth it.

    It's hot-headed reactions like that that make the anti's think we shouldn't be allowed to carry guns because if we are wronged we'll have a moment of (possibly understandable) anger and do something illegal.

    With the kind of rage this individual displayed, do you think for a second he would have hesitated to use a gun if he'd had one? I'm guessing not.

    We need to be smarter, cooler, more controlled than that and keep our actions in line with the law even if we feel like laying out someone who seriously betrayed us.

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