Real Scenario just happened few hours ago

This is a discussion on Real Scenario just happened few hours ago within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; ...not that it seems to apply to this situation anymore.... I have always found it rather strange that cuckolded men feel the need to confront/beat/kill ...

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  1. #46
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    ...not that it seems to apply to this situation anymore....

    I have always found it rather strange that cuckolded men feel the need to confront/beat/kill their wife's back-door man. If this is consensual sex, your issue is with your wife.

    I'm sure it makes the guy feel better to think his pure, holy wife was lured into infidelity by some slick operator, but it's only a path to ruin. Get a divorce if you want, then move on. Pounding on your wife's paramour is senseless, and only gets you in trouble.

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  3. #47
    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    With piping, hammers and other utensils in the store.... someone couldn't knock this guy "out" ..... too many bystanders and observers in life.

    I would have knocked this boy out with something, and your friend would have been in much better shape. Waiting for the police........ God help me I hate that kind of comment.

    I don't care how BIG the guy is, take his knee caps out and he's much shorter and much more docile. There are other things that I might have done, which he would have not gotten up from, or holds that he would feel excruciating pain ..... and then there is always "against the threat of death or great bodily harm". I can show your friend a few easy maneuvers that would have allowed him to quickly put the guy's head into the wall, and out on the floor... if he would like.

    I'm afraid that if the guy was kicking the door and ripping it down, I would have advised him I was "armed" .... and a few other appropriate remarks.

    His wife, can sleep with or have an affair with anyone she wants, and despite what he may think, he can't do much about it. Also, if this was about a "picture" , if it was taken while they were in a public place.... doesn't matter... it's quite legal to take a picture of anyone in a public place.

    I hope they throw the book at his attacker. Sounds like he could use being locked up for quite a long time.
    Maybe some warm sudsy prison showers at 2am with Rufus and Leroy, will show him he's not as bad as he thinks.
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I'm not saying this is true by any means, but he wouldn't be the first "kindest, compassionate, church youth leaders" to sleep with another guys wife. That happens, and usually not a whole lot of people would know about it.

    However, if it was truly an unwarranted assault, at some point, deadly force may have been warranted. Other than that, I don't know what to say. When you don't carry any defensive tools, you're kind of limited in your response.
    It sounds like your saying that if the friend was indeed sleeping with the other guys wife then deadly force would not be warranted no matter how badly he got beat?

    I disagree, I don't condone adulty, but I don't think it warrants permanent physical injury or death. That's not our place to judge.

    If it's apparent that one of the combatants is unable to defend himself and is no longer in the fight I think it needs to be stopped. Granted the loser may have instigated the fight, but the other person should be pulled off at somepoint.

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Like I said in my original post.. even if you can understand why someone would do something in retaliation for suspected (or confirmed) infidelity, it still does not justify the act legally... it's not legal to severely beat the person you think (or have confirmed) is sleeping with your spouse.

    It's called assault and you will loose your permit to carry and possibly your freedom. It's not worth it.

    It's hot-headed reactions like that that make the anti's think we shouldn't be allowed to carry guns because if we are wronged we'll have a moment of (possibly understandable) anger and do something illegal.

    With the kind of rage this individual displayed, do you think for a second he would have hesitated to use a gun if he'd had one? I'm guessing not.

    We need to be smarter, cooler, more controlled than that and keep our actions in line with the law even if we feel like laying out someone who seriously betrayed us.
    This is the problem I have though... Everyone is going on the information that they have AFTER THE FACT that this beating was in regards to an adulterous issue. If you're the employee that walks in on the beating part(after words have already been spoken and the beating has commenced), you DON'T know about the adultery part. Who's to say that beating was because this guy was found to have been fondling the other guys kid in the bathroom or something, or that the smaller guy actually initiated an attack on the bigger guy and the bigger guy is doing what needs to be done?
    I'm just saying, walking into a situation like that already in progress, we don't have all the facts.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  6. #50
    Member Array geohans's Avatar
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    Headline: Home Depot Employee saves customer's life, gets fired

    Doubtful. Far worse to have to live with yourself after standing idly by while someone gets beaten within an inch of his life. Especially if you have the chance to: 1. Go get help; 2. Grab a weapon

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    This is the problem I have though... Everyone is going on the information that they have AFTER THE FACT that this beating was in regards to an adulterous issue. If you're the employee that walks in on the beating part(after words have already been spoken and the beating has commenced), you DON'T know about the adultery part. Who's to say that beating was because this guy was found to have been fondling the other guys kid in the bathroom or something, or that the smaller guy actually initiated an attack on the bigger guy and the bigger guy is doing what needs to be done?
    I'm just saying, walking into a situation like that already in progress, we don't have all the facts.
    Even more amazing is it appears that the beating was for the misunderstanding that the victum took a picture of the guy and his wife. Maybe the victum just wanted to post a picture of the couple on the "People of Walmart" site.

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology
    Tactical challenge, here. So post-OC, you may have an opportunity to pistol whip.

    Pistols get rendered into bricks by pistol whipping with them. Then you assume that your gun still works for shooting (assuming escape unavailable)? What makes you so sure that a) pistol whipping is effective, and b) that your gun still works if 6' 4" is still ready to rock?
    In answer to your questions: I carry full size, all metal handguns. I have used the technique on some occasions and found it to be quite effective and that it had no effect on the function of the gun.
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  9. #53
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Tough situation. I hope your friend makes a speedy recovery. I wonder what the anti's would do in this situation? I know what I would have done, but without something to even the fight, what does the average "peace and harmony" guy do? I guess stand there and get his arse handed to him?

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Who's to say that beating was because this guy was found to have been fondling the other guys kid in the bathroom or something, or that the smaller guy actually initiated an attack on the bigger guy and the bigger guy is doing what needs to be done?
    I'm just saying, walking into a situation like that already in progress, we don't have all the facts.
    No, you don't have all the facts and that's exactly the point. You can assume the worst and that the guy getting the beating is getting what he deserves only to later find out it's nothing more than a racially motivated beat down, mistaken identity or someone just went plain-old bonkers. You have no information and therefore if you DO act you are acting on your best judgement at the time.

    But, as Guantes and others have said in this thread, there is a time in physical altercation like this where the fight needs to stop, whether the person doing the beating is in the right or not... because eventually, he'll no longer be in the right and he has quite a few witnesses to say, "Yeah, the guy just went limp and the other guy just kept beating him and beating him." That's a good way to get a murder charge (provided the individual dies from the beating) or, if the circumstances are VERY extenuating a manslaughter charge or reckless endangerment or assault, etc. Even if you are in the "right" there has to come a time when you recognize the fight is over and it's time to back away.

    Think of it this way, you stepping in could actually save a father, who's little boy was fondled by the guy he's beating, from having to go to prison for manslaughter because he beat the guy to death. Of course, given those circumstances the DA or the jury might take pity on the father but there is no guarantee.

    As a rape victim I understand the rage someone can feel towards an aggressor and there are several times I have said that if I saw my rapist again I'd kill him but the truth of the matter is if I were to do so I would be committing murder and I certainly hope that if I saw him again and my rage got the best of me and I grabbed the nearest shovel and started going to town that my husband or someone else would stop me before I could continue to the point where it forever altered my future: prison, not getting to see my kids, a felony record, court, revocation of my permit, possibly having to sell all of the guns in our possession because of my felony record, etc. My rapist is not worth my future. A criminal, in my humble opinion, is not worth anyone's future. I've come to realize that and no longer think that an "if I see him again, I'll kill him" reaction is either reasonable or wise.

    Let's say JD caught someone fondling our child in a restroom. You better believe he would stop them. But if that "stopping" was in a form of a beating and witnesses started pouring in and I went in and saw that the person he was beating was no longer resisting or unconscious and JD continued to hit him I would first yell at JD to stop, if he didn't I would not be beyond pepper spraying my own husband to save him from killing the man.. and saving his future with his son and daughter especially when they are going to need him so much. As it was he would probably be arrested and charges pressed but hopefully the DA would be understanding and drop them once he realized the circumstances. I can't say we'd be that lucky if he beat the guy to death. I wouldn't blame him for the way he felt but, as I said before, just because you are justified initially doesn't mean that justifies everything you do. There does come a point when you cross the line and if you can't stop yourself then someone else needs to stop you.

    If I don't know the person it's their mess and I might not get involved at all depending on the circumstances and probably not loose much sleep over it but if I have the means and can safely stop something like this I may be willing to do it.

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I would probably pepper spray him first. From there it would depend on circumstances. 6' 4" is a lot bigger than I am. Given the opportunity I might try pistol whipping prior to shooting, assuming escape was unavailable.
    For some of us the idea of going hands on would be a no win situation with an outcome similar to what happened to the person this thread is about. Waiting until the beating becomes life threatening would probably be to late to try and retrieve your weapon. Attempting to draw while being pummeled in the head might not work depending on the strength of the blows.
    Example: I ride a bike and look to be very physically fit but that is far from the truth. Even with a cane I can walk only about ten to fifteen minutes before the pain becomes to much. I am pretty sure that even someone smaller than I am could overpower me in a hand to hand encounter.

    Michael

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    For some of us the idea of going hands on would be a no win situation with an outcome similar to what happened to the person this thread is about. Waiting until the beating becomes life threatening would probably be to late to try and retrieve your weapon. Attempting to draw while being pummeled in the head might not work depending on the strength of the blows.
    Example: I ride a bike and look to be very physically fit but that is far from the truth. Even with a cane I can walk only about ten to fifteen minutes before the pain becomes to much. I am pretty sure that even someone smaller than I am could overpower me in a hand to hand encounter.

    Michael
    I don't disagree with you. Circumstances in addition to personal attributes, disabilities, training and experience will virtually always come into play.
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  13. #57
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    This happened in Moses Lake Washington in the last couple weeks. An acquaintance of mine was at his home when two men came knocking on the door. They were looking for "the guy who owns the motorcycle" and mentioned someone other than my acquaintance. The bike, which was parked out front, belonged to my acquaintance told them that it was his motorcycle, and not the person whom they were looking for... They left...a little while later both men returned again and said they knew the guy they were looking for owned that bike and wanted to look in the house for him. My acquaintance said, no you can't look in my house, but told them the guy they were looking for was not someone he even knew, and that no one was in the house( His wife and their small child actually were inside his house). He said they needed to leave or he would call the police...they left. He thought the matter was over and done with. Later that day while he was working outside in the yard, the two men returned and said they were going to look in his house, and got aggressive with him pushing and hitting...one of the men started hitting him and my acquaintance told him.."I have a weapon and I will shoot you if you do not stop hitting me..." One of the men hit him again and my acquaintance drew his weapon and shot him center mass, killing him. The other man took off running, and to my knowledge has not even been identified yet. No charges have been filed against my acquaintance.

    I do want to make clear that what I have written here is hearsay from other people. Nothing I say was said directly to me by my acquaintance and I have no first hand knowledge of the situation.

    My point is, there may come a time where shooting an unarmed aggressor is your choice to protect yourself, and those whom you love. States laws vary, but in Washington state you have the right to protect yourself with deadly force if a felony is being committed... always carry, never tell...

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaboomkaboom View Post
    This happened in Moses Lake Washington in the last couple weeks. An acquaintance of mine was at his home when two men came knocking on the door. They were looking for "the guy who owns the motorcycle" and mentioned someone other than my acquaintance. The bike, which was parked out front, belonged to my acquaintance told them that it was his motorcycle, and not the person whom they were looking for... They left...a little while later both men returned again and said they knew the guy they were looking for owned that bike and wanted to look in the house for him. My acquaintance said, no you can't look in my house, but told them the guy they were looking for was not someone he even knew, and that no one was in the house( His wife and their small child actually were inside his house). He said they needed to leave or he would call the police...they left. He thought the matter was over and done with. Later that day while he was working outside in the yard, the two men returned and said they were going to look in his house, and got aggressive with him pushing and hitting...one of the men started hitting him and my acquaintance told him.."I have a weapon and I will shoot you if you do not stop hitting me..." One of the men hit him again and my acquaintance drew his weapon and shot him center mass, killing him. The other man took off running, and to my knowledge has not even been identified yet. No charges have been filed against my acquaintance.

    I do want to make clear that what I have written here is hearsay from other people. Nothing I say was said directly to me by my acquaintance and I have no first hand knowledge of the situation.

    My point is, there may come a time where shooting an unarmed aggressor is your choice to protect yourself, and those whom you love. States laws vary, but in Washington state you have the right to protect yourself with deadly force if a felony is being committed... always carry, never tell...
    In this situation I would simply go inside my house. Once they come in, castle doctrine is in full affect.

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    From the description, it may not have been possible for him to disengage and go in the house.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    It sounds like your saying that if the friend was indeed sleeping with the other guys wife then deadly force would not be warranted no matter how badly he got beat?

    I disagree, I don't condone adulty, but I don't think it warrants permanent physical injury or death. That's not our place to judge.

    If it's apparent that one of the combatants is unable to defend himself and is no longer in the fight I think it needs to be stopped. Granted the loser may have instigated the fight, but the other person should be pulled off at somepoint.
    No sir, I did not intend for it to be construed that if he was sleeping with his wife, that the beating would be warranted. However, by what I wrote, I can see how it could be taken that way. (My error in not being more clear).

    My intention was that if he was sleeping with his wife, then he knew why he was getting beaten. Not that it was justified in the least. It was not.

    I was just pointing out that this is the kind of stuff that happens when people commit adultery. Heck, a lot of people end up getting shot for sleeping with other peoples wives. It's not right, and those who retaliate with violence deserve all the legal problems they incur for such reckless and illegal behavior, be it for assault or murder.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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