New guy question

This is a discussion on New guy question within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey everyone, I've been looking for one of these forums for awhile and have liked what I have read from this one! So hi all. ...

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Thread: New guy question

  1. #1
    Member Array SpringXDsub's Avatar
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    New guy question

    Hey everyone,
    I've been looking for one of these forums for awhile and have liked what I have read from this one! So hi all.
    I got my CCW a few months ago and it has been very nice to have and I definately feel much more comfortable now.

    I had a question for some of you that have been carrying for awhile. Or anyone of course.

    At what point would you draw your weapon? If you saw a brutal fight going on but were unaware of who the BG and GG were. Would you pull it and try to stop the fight? I'm not saying you were planning to shoot because you were unaware. But just to pull it to try and regain control.

    As a new carrier, and I am a very young carrier I am just worried because the legal system seems to be against us and I don't want to make a mistake that could change my life for the worse.

    Thanks for reading/responding.
    -Nick

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    1)You are not a police officer.
    I'm not saying you were planning to shoot because you were unaware. But just to pull it to try and regain control.
    2) Never pull a weapon unless you are fully prepared to use it.

    Michael
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    Member Array afojc's Avatar
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    First thing is always 911, let the LEOs take care of it, they are trained for it, if the situation gets real ugly like the BGs are coming after you or it looks like someone might get killed I would draw

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Never pull a gun other than for SD of yourself or a loved one, unless you are well aware of all of the facts involved in your doing so. The consequences are too great! Oh, and welcome to the DC Forum from Delaware!
    Hiram25
    You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Nick.
    First off, welcome.

    Second of all, congratulations on getting your permit.

    For the most part, you got your permit to protect yourself. The legal system is NOT against you, or me or any other concealed weapons permit holder. After all, they did give us the permit.

    But, it is incumbent on you to know the laws of your state and jurisdiction.

    Take for example the more or less recent case of the fellow who shot an armed robber in one of the Walgreen's in Omaha. He had a permit that was apparently restricted in the locale in which he used it... something about a municipal permit IIRC. No charges were filed, and in that he got lucky. He did the right thing... but he may have been in violation of some law doing so.

    When we get our permits, it says nothing on them about being a new member of the Justice League, having police authority, or being the BMOC now.

    Your permit has the sole purpose of giving you license to exercise your right to bear arms for self defense. For SELF DEFENSE Again... FOR SELF DEFENSE.

    Self defense against what? Self defense against (in most jurisdictions) grave bodily injury or death. Usually, that means someone is threatening your life, or threatening to maim you permanently, who is at the time displaying the means to carry that out... a deadly force. He might be twice your size... and have a ball bat, he might be half your size and have a knife... but he is not threatening to beat you to death with a wet noodle. He might be twice your size and have no weapon other than his hands... what are you going to do, Kill him..? Nope, you'll be going to jail.

    If MitchellCT doesn't chime in here, I'll do it for him... YOU need more training than the permit class. You need to know when you can use your weapon, and when you can't. And why. You don't necessarily have to pay for the training... but you better be able to read and understand the law, and the case law that follows it.

    The simplest and best course of action... as a beginner... is to stay out of stupid places, avoid stupid people, and don't do stupid things. If you have a more varied life that requires you to get out a bit more than that will allow... you need to learn more before you do so, armed.

    I can suggest books... start with In the Gravest Extreme By Massad Ayoob

    Go to the library...(if they don't have it, get an interlibrary loan) ... or order it from Amazon... Once you have read it twice... ask more questions... we'll be here.
    MotorCityGun and CaptSmith like this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Thumbs up

    Welcome from SC. You're getting good and consistent advice thus far.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Hello and welcome from Florida.
    My father always taught me never pull a gun until its time to use it.
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Member Array SpringXDsub's Avatar
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    Thank you everyone for your replies. I appreciate it. Especially Oakchas, really good post. I do practice regulary at the range shooting. But it is not under stress or anything of that sort. I have been trying to find classes that would allow more situational training/under stress training but haven't found any of yet. I will definately take a look at the book too.

    Thanks again
    -Nick

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    "If you saw a brutal fight going on but were unaware of who the BG and GG were. Would you pull it and try to stop the fight? I'm not saying you were planning to shoot because you were unaware. But just to pull it to try and regain control. As a new carrier, and I am a very young carrier I am just worried because the legal system seems to be against us and I don't want to make a mistake that could change my life for the worse."

    On the flip side of the coin if you see a guy beating a young little girl over the head with a Baseball Bat & it's pretty much "a given" that she will deceased before the Police arrive....it's a quite a safe bet that you'll be OK if you stop him with your firearm.

    You need to be 100% confident that you've evaluated the situation correctly because you are correct.
    Your future will depend on it.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringXDsub View Post
    Thank you everyone for your replies. I appreciate it. Especially Oakchas, really good post. I do practice regulary at the range shooting. But it is not under stress or anything of that sort. I have been trying to find classes that would allow more situational training/under stress training but haven't found any of yet. I will definately take a look at the book too.

    Thanks again
    -Nick
    Look up a local IPSC club,they shoot multiple targets and timed events,you will definitely get your heart rate up,and shoot and move under stress
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Welcome to the forum.

    Others have pretty well answered your question.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
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    Member Array cuckoo429's Avatar
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    I agree with other posts 100%. Under no circumstances do you EVER use your weapon to gain control of a situation. That's what the LEO's are for. NEVER draw your weapon unless you intend to pull the trigger. You mentioned you are a "young" carrier, so I am assuming maybe early 20's? Don't get stupid around your friends and start showing off that you can carry a weapon. Don't slam a bunch of beers and show off your weapon to friends. It won't end well. Don't go telling everyone that you're carrying. It's only asking for trouble. It is perhaps one of the grreatest responsibilities you can have (more than driving a car), so please use common sense and have some responsibility. Not that you are one of them (and it doesn't sound like you are), but young people nowadays have lost that sense of responsibility and lack the usual "street smarts" needed to survive. I gave almost the same lecture to my own kid when he started hunting and will be a future concealed carrier, so it's no different. We here on the forum do not want to read about you accidentally discharging your weapon or using it foolishly to stop a fight or something. You will gain alot of useful knowledge and information from this forum, so ask questions often. Take some more training classes and practice shooting often. It doesn't stop at the CPL class.

  14. #13
    Ex Member Array JDlewis's Avatar
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    welcome from okl.

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    My personal rule of thumb is not to present my weapon unless threat of severe bodily harm or death is imminent.

    You should NEVER use your weapon to scare, warn or intimidate.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    As others have stated, self defense. At some point after reading up on your local laws, your brain will kick in and you will realize that the weapon on your hip will tone you down (testosterone neutralizer), you will know that you can walk away from a challenge (stupid people) and be fine with it. Deescalation will become a new skill set.

    My rules are -

    1. It's not my problem until it becomes my problem.
    2. I carry a gun in case I have to shoot someone.
    3. Never, ever, get involved in someone elses .
    4. There are at least 2 blood sucking lawyers & an over zealous DA attached to every bullet that leaves the muzzle of my weapon.
    5. I refuse to be a victim under any circumstance.
    6. I only shoot to stop the threat. Death is a potential side effect of shooting another person, but it is not the intent.

    If you see a situation that you immediately think you can be justified in using your weapon to defend someone else other than immediate family (and even then it's sketchy), think again. Unless you know all the players involved, were there from the start and heard every thing that led up to the tipping point where your urge to get involved kicked in, stay the heck out of it and be a good witness.

    Your gun is the last option/resort/solution to a problem. Statistically speaking - if you have to use it outside your home, somewhere along the line you made a bad decision, or are having a very bad day, and it will certainly get worse before it's over.

    In the unlikely event that you ever have to use your weapon, the only words to the responding LEOs should be something along the lines of;
    Officer, I want to cooperate, but I am very traumatized at the moment, and want to consult with my lawyer before I make any statements. There is [insert evidence items here, i.e other party's weapon, shell casings, bullet hits, etc...] there, there, and there.
    Last edited by Sticks; September 10th, 2011 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Final thought -
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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