Very Serious Potential Threat From Disgruntled Employee
This is a discussion on Very Serious Potential Threat From Disgruntled Employee within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm confused.
Did he threaten to harm/kill you?...
September 24th, 2011 12:17 PM
Did he threaten to harm/kill you?
September 24th, 2011 12:48 PM
While all of the talk of making sure you are always armed is fine, just remember your legal training during your CHP class. You can NOT use deadly force based on past threats, you can NOT use deadly force based on verbal threats, and you can NOT use deadly force to stop a non deadly physical attack.
If the person is a hot head you need to keep your wits about you and if he does approach you be prepared for any type of response. It could be he just needs to vent verbally and you need to be able to deal with this WITHOUT escalating it to a higher level of force. If it becomes physical without weapons you need to have the option of less than lethal alternatives. Consider having pepper spray handy as well as your wife should have some and she should be trained in the basic operation of it.
Remember, NC law is comprised of many shades of gray so you should never let your guard down but make sure YOU don't escalate the situation. Be ready to shake hands or use deadly force or any level in between.
Remember also, you as a non LEO may only meet force with like force, you do not have the right to meet force with greater force such as LEOs do.
You can lose you life in ways other than being the victim lethal force, you can lose it by being convicted of using deadly force again a non deadly threat and not being with your family for a long long time.
Be prepared, be smart, and think.
September 24th, 2011 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by QKShooter
This is the best advice. You don't have the Secret Service working for you so if he want's you he'll probably get you.
Your best defense is to do what QK said. Think about how you would kill you and change those things to make yourself a harder target. The best way to avoid being shot is not being there in the first place.
"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent
September 24th, 2011 01:42 PM
Lots of great advice here. I might add:
* Stay calm if/when you see him.
* Try to spend your time in places where there are others, ie, potential witness.
* Don't drink.
* Be careful what you say to ANYONE about this person, especially on forums, emails, texts, etc. It will come back to haunt you if the situation goes to court.
* Don't dwell on it to the exclusion of other important things in your life (work, family, etc.). This can do wonders to keep the situation in perspective so you're not seeing spooks behind every bush.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
September 24th, 2011 02:16 PM
At the risk of sounding a bit paranoid, have you considered purchasing body armor?
September 24th, 2011 08:24 PM
Something that nobody has yet mentioned--what are the possibilities that he might enter into the workplace to take vengence on you and any other employees that he thinks gave him the shaft?
In that light, think through your work enviroment. Do you have a back entrance? If so, keep it and any other entrances locked--if he had keys--then change the locks--ASAP.
About the front entrance, what are the point of ingress and egress? Are there any choke points, fatal funnels etc? Do you have a receptionist? If so, does she have immediate access to a "crash" button (something that sends an alarm straight to the local Law Enforcement office). If you don't have one of those, perhaps you should invest in it.
Is the front person/receptionist aware of the potential threat?? Do you have any kind of protocol/SOP if he does show up? If he has made any kind of threats, perhaps you should get a restraining order/order of protection--yes, we know that they will not actually protect you, but if you have one, and he does show up, you don't have to wait for the violence before you can call in the LEO's--his presence would be adequate justification for a crash call.
Scott, US Army 1974-2004
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan
September 24th, 2011 08:46 PM
I know where you are coming from as I also dealt with a female co-worker at work who is still bitter at my rejecting of her requests for dates and for informing on her. We now avoid each other and she is also afraid to make eye contact due to either shame or still some attraction, or maybe both. Because of this, I now become more aware at work and avoid her as much as possible (don't even want to be in closed space alone w/ her for fear of her setting me up). We don't talk anymore unless it's something related to work and she does not make eye contact when answering. Another precaution I have also taken is also changing to my old address for the recall directory. When we were on good terms, she ran into me once and spied on me at a grocery store w/o even saying hi and I didn't like that. As a result, I have raised my alertness when out in public from condition yellow to orange in case she might follow me outside of work.
Originally Posted by smed1869
September 24th, 2011 09:00 PM
Wow...thanks for the robust response. I will try to answer your questions together below. I think it is important to note that there has been no specific threat. I have heard things like he thinks I'm a coward, and he couldn't stand to be in the same room as me, etc., but those are pretty typical and expected thoughts for someone in his shoes. The potential is there, but there is nothing specific that I'm aware of.
-This person does not know where I live, but probably could find out pretty easily.
-My wife is trained to use firearms and has applied for and is awaiting her own CHL.
-My place of employment has a no weapons policy on site, and that's as far as I'm willing to comment on that topic.
-I was not the sole person in charge of his dismissal, there are others above me that played a part but I'm clearly the reason/target.
-OC spray is part of my daily carry routine, regardless of my carry state. Wife also carries OC in purse, though not as always accessible.
-Body Armor? I mean, I'm a little paranoid right now because this all just happened, but I'm not at the barbed wire perimeter and body armor stage yet. I don't believe that this is a sniper or assault rifle situation. It is more like the guy would love to get in my face in a parking lot and beat the living snot out of me. I believe the threat of him using firearms is low.
-The idea of him gaining reentry somehow has crossed my mind and that's not an impossibility. The no weapons policy definitely doesn't help me protect myself either. The security is very very weak, and there are no 'crash buttons' or anything that I know of. Maybe there are, but I don't think we're set up for that kind of response.
-Thanks NC Bullseye for the laws refresher. I'm convinced that his background/training and physical stature (5'5'', 250 lbs) would constitute disparity of force (me = 5'7", 165 lb), but I appreciate the points about force escalation and will mind those as best I can.
It's tough trying to find the balance between paranoia and preparedness, especially in this situation. I'm trying to match the alertness with the threat, and at times it does get the best of me by interfering with life as normal. Hopefully time will work its magic and this will blow over without incident. Until then it will always be in the front or back of my mind.
Thanks again to all for your responses.
September 24th, 2011 10:01 PM
Your number one weapon is SA, everything else is secondary. I have been in your shoes many, many times. As a matter of fact, I am in the same circumstances right now. This is the main reason why I decided to carry a self-defense firearm.
Stay alert, stay alive.
Last edited by boricua; September 25th, 2011 at 01:11 AM.
Duty, Honor, Country...MEDIC
¡Cuánto duele crecer, cuan hondo es el dolor de alzarse en puntillas y observar con temblores de angustia, esa cosa tremenda, que es la vida del hombre! - René Marqués
September 24th, 2011 10:28 PM
I'd add this: put out some real or fake surveillance cameras.
Put them in obvious places.
It's just one more obstacle to make it less easy for anyone.
(Real cameras are obviously better, but fake ones go up fast and cheap)
September 24th, 2011 11:45 PM
You're very welcome, please do NOT count on being able to make a disparity of force case on someone two inches shorter and 85 lbs heavier. That's a very minimal difference when they are in a court of law. With him dressed the right way there would be no disparity. As to his training, being mil does not make him a magical killer. Unless you can back that with documented proof that's he's trained in more advanced combat you've got nothing but hearsay.
Originally Posted by smed1869
The only thing fair about a fair trial is that there's a fair chance you will be blindsided with the verdict.
Remember also you have a duty to retreat if possible in most cases until Dec 1. Just take a deep breath and remember to not become the instigator if you should cross paths. If he leaves you no other options be prepared to oblige him.
September 25th, 2011 12:47 AM
I'm a big fan of video surveillance. Nowadays you can get a four camera day/night outdoor system that runs off a hard drive and records 24/7 for about $500. Not only can you review what is going on around your property, but a time stamped screen cap is good evidence if he ever decides to stalk your home. It's only one of the pieces of good security, but a vital one.
September 25th, 2011 12:53 AM
One person I had , had serious issues ..... due to combat. No one that he had been under wanted to even mess with him because a few attacks he had done on a couple of people. However, those areas were moved under me at one point and I felt he "used" that as an initimidation factor. I had some talks with him, gave him numerous warnings including 1 more time you're gone, and that didn't seem to phase him. I fired him. Everyone thought I should be concerned about my safety.... blah, blah, blah.
Originally Posted by smed1869
Just be safe and alert. The most that ever happened in my case was I found a flat tire on my car at work within 2 days, and it was a long metal stake that had been driven into the sidewall. So, I had to buy a tire, but that was the extent of it. I knew where that came from.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
September 25th, 2011 01:22 PM
Wow thats never easy for sure .
Been in mangement for years .
I have a post running here right now ( should I watch my back thred )
Mine is about 360 degress from yours ( the owner has me worried and is not all there)
I think you have done well and coverd pretty much all you can .
I can feel for you because I am in same scenario about what could happen as court casses come up for me.
I know you said you have some of your other employess still speaking to him .
My thoughts on that is not a good idea at all .
Dont know what kind of biz your in ( mine is retail trade service ).
I can tell you I would never ever trust any of my employees to tell me the truth and all the truth about
what they are were talking about a he said / he said deal is never good .
September 29th, 2011 06:58 PM
Both that female co-worker and myself are in the Navy (same rank too) and we are prohibited from carrying any firearms/OC onboard any military installation. So chances of her using her CC weapon on me are remote, unless she is willing to lose everything she has, including her security clearance. She also does not carry any kind of edged weapon on her at work. But again, you never know. At work onboard a destroyer stationed at a Naval Base, all I carry is a tactical light (Surefire 6P Defender) and tactical folder (Spyderco Endura 4). We also work for the same department but are from different divisions in which we are both Leading Petty Officers. So far, she and I remain distant and I hope it stays that way. And looking back, I have never experienced this kind of outrageously unprofessional behavior from any Petty Officer First Class in my almost 17 yrs. in the Navy.
Originally Posted by smed1869
Last edited by Jason Storm; September 29th, 2011 at 08:01 PM.
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