A scenario -- responding to insults

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Thread: A scenario -- responding to insults

  1. #46
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    If you even have to ask, maybe you should reconsider carrying.
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  3. #47
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    Buy a bottle of 'skin thickener'...
    Now use this stuff daily until comments, gestures, and looks...register nothing in your brain.

    You will find that after continued use, you will have a different mind set.
    Sometimes you have to give people the respect that they do not deserve.
    Life goes on...idiots abound, but just don't get dragged down into their world.

    Stay armed...stay calm...stay safe!
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Kinda like somebody calls you up and threatens you,you tell him I'm right here come on over,he shows up and you shoot him claiming SD,you are in deep doo doo since you escalated the confrontation and provoked him
    I would like to hear a serious argument on this one. If you read 9.32 very carefully you will see that the reference to provoking is in relation to a(2)(B). Self defense is presumed reasonable in the following.

    (b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force
    was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is
    presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
    (1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom
    the deadly force was used:
    (A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to
    enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle,
    or place of business or employment;
    (B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to
    remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation,
    vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
    Based on your argument, if they are beating your door in, and you tell them, don't come in here, I have a gun and will shoot you, you are provoking that person and would be in trouble. I don't buy that. If they are unlawfully entering or attempting to enter your home/auto/business your actions are reasonable.

    Of course this has little to do with the OP's post, but that didn't really require much discussion, and that question has been more than answered. Although the OP should be aware of the following statutes if he isn't already. Don't go flipping the bird at people or you might find yourself charged with this.

    PC 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT.
    (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:
    (1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public
    place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate
    breach of the peace;
    (2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and
    the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the
    peace;
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  5. #49
    Member Array Ishmael's Avatar
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    Let me rephrase part of your description of this situation:

    <blockquote>Some guys try to provoke me into a negative reaction. I do exactly what they are hoping I will do.</blockquote>

    It is so strange to me that more people don't realize that, when someone uses "fighting words" or gestures, they are trying to manipulate you. Who is weaker, the person who lets someone else manipulate him into a potentially life-threatening or at least life-changing situation, or the person who is not worried about two-dimensional projections of machismo and so cannot be manipulated by such completely transparent BS?

    In the martial arts world, you quickly learn that one of the best way to win fights is not with superior strength or technique, but by getting inside the other guy's head and causing him to lose his temper/take action on your terms, not his. This is very similar.

  6. #50
    Member Array nralifer4570's Avatar
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    retsup99 sums it up.
    Idiots are everywhere.
    Not worth the time or energy to bother with.
    Somewhere at the beginning of this thread, "In the Gravest Extreme" was recommended.
    I bought the book when I first brought a gun in my house as an adult.
    (I actually bought and read it before I was of legal age to purchase a handgun in my state).

    In my opinion, a must read for anyone who takes on the responsibility of firearms ownership and usage in self defense.
    The op MUST change his mindset or they will risk going past the point of no return.
    Last edited by nralifer4570; October 2nd, 2011 at 12:33 PM.
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  7. #51
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  8. #52
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    If you reply to an insult that then escalates and there are "witnesses' around, you have a very big problem even if it escalates to the point of using your firearm because of an imminent threat THAT YOU CAUSED. As others have said, if you cannot control yourself even to the worst of taunting, including someone calling your wife an ugly "B" word, you had better not carry.

  9. #53
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    Yep, you lose. Even if you're unarmed, you lose. By responding you contribute to the escalation...
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre

  10. #54
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    Good lord, I realize that I have the experience and perspective that comes with age but even in my 20s I wouldnt have responded to a "random" threat from somebody passing by. They dont even know me, why should I care what they think?

    If it was something more personal, by my mid-20s I had figured out that ignoring such people generally annoyed them more, so I pretty much left that sort of thing behind.

    Granted, estrogen can make us ladies pretty wacky sometimes but testosterone is not always doing you gents any favors either.
    Bark'n likes this.
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    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillyNilly View Post
    Don't get me wrong guys, I never responded to fingers or yelled epitaphs so I created a scenario. I didn't say I'll pull my gun from a finger flipping but in a confrontation. There's a difference. Suppose they stopped because I didn't respond and try to aggravate me into responding. I'll still ignore them but when they get out of the car the situation changes. That's another scenario but maybe I didn't say it right.

    I don't let them get to me because as y'all said they're out for kicks and inflate their egos. What if I did respond and having a gun on me will only make matters worse. That was my question.
    I'd say leaving would be your best option. And retreating is a must just about anywhere before using lethal force. Maybe not on your own property but in front of a jury, if you could have gotten in the house, it's not going to look good.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Kinda like somebody calls you up and threatens you,you tell him I'm right here come on over,he shows up and you shoot him claiming SD,you are in deep doo doo since you escalated the confrontation and provoked him
    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    I would like to hear a serious argument on this one. If you read 9.32 very carefully you will see that the reference to provoking is in relation to a(2)(B). Self defense is presumed reasonable in the following.
    I think the key element here is 9.32 (a) (1)
    (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

    (1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
    (emphasis added)
    So now we have to go back to 9.31
    (b) The use of force against another is not justified:

    (1) in response to verbal provocation alone;

    (2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c);

    (3) if the actor consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other;

    (4) if the actor provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless:
    So the question then becomes by telling him to come on over would the jury believe you are either consenting to that force or provoking him? If so you are back to having to retreat and attempting to end the encounter (if possible to do so safely) and the other party continuing their aggression before you can claim self defense.

    Based on your argument, if they are beating your door in, and you tell them, don't come in here, I have a gun and will shoot you, you are provoking that person and would be in trouble. I don't buy that. If they are unlawfully entering or attempting to enter your home/auto/business your actions are reasonable.
    I think that is covered by 9.04- Threats as Justifiable Force
    The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
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  13. #57
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    I'm in agreement with previous posters, that ignoring it is the only logical choice in this situation. The hassles and risk of the situation getting out of hand are too great and there are no appreciable benefits to engaging the offensive pukes in any way whatsoever.

    On another note, I'm ashamed at some of the responses here;

    You lose for just asking the question.... Duh. -oakchas

    It's kinda scary that you even had to ask the question -WHEC724

    If you even have to ask, maybe you should reconsider carrying. -OldVet
    Not to assume anything, but the original poster could be new to firearms, new to self defense with a firearm, new to carrying, or even just unclear on certain (admittedly confusing to some) legal situations where carrying a gun is concerned. Asking the question is the first step towards avoiding any possible legal problems in the future. Flaming someone for asking an honest question is hardly the proper thing to do regardless of the experience or lack on the part of the person asking the question. Engage them in thought provoking conversation... Cite a news report about a similar case that went down somewhere... Answer the question, at the very least... I promise that none of you knew all there was to know about carrying a gun when you decided to start, so please don't bash this man for the same.

  14. #58
    Senior Member Array GreyGhost's Avatar
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    Don't let them get under your skin. I get flipped off pretty regularly! I'm a truck driver hauling fuel. I'm big, slow and always in the way of somebody in a hurry. You just can't let people get to you. When that happens you can make some really big mistakes. In my business that means you either lose your job or die. Neither one sounds like a good option!

    Pay attention to what's going on around you but don't let people push your buttons.
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  15. #59
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    I think the key element here is 9.32 (a) (1)
    (emphasis added)
    So now we have to go back to 9.31

    So the question then becomes by telling him to come on over would the jury believe you are either consenting to that force or provoking him? If so you are back to having to retreat and attempting to end the encounter (if possible to do so safely) and the other party continuing their aggression before you can claim self defense.
    9.31 doesn't say anything about having to retreat due to consent, only if engaged in criminal activity or provoking the person.

    However, I think there might have been some variance on what would happen if you were engaged in a phone conversation and told them to come over ect. If you meet them at the roadside, I think it would be much difference scenario than say if you stayed in your home with the door locked ect, and they started entering your home unlawfully. If you meet them at the curb, I agree you probably just screwed yourself. I think if you're in your home you would be perfectly justified even if you mouthed off on the telephone. Not suggesting that is a good thing to do.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    You ever watch Animal Planet shows on rattlesnakes? think of yourself as a rattlesnake. You have way better ways of using your venom (like on a bunny rabbit) than some drunken back-woods yokel who is only trying to impress his buddies. But only if you absolutely have to....you let 'em have it.

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