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A scenario -- responding to insults

6K views 67 replies 49 participants last post by  MadMac 
#1 ·
I go outside my house to smoke my cigarettes. I watched cars go by and some flipped a finger at you. No reason but I just ignore 'em because I'm packing. I felt that if I responded to the insults I would be forced to bring my gun up in a confrontation.

Then I lose because it's not SD right?
 
#5 ·
You lose for just asking the question.... Duh.

Well, you can't go about drawing your gun all Willy Nilly. If you're even thinking about whether you should draw your weapon in response to a single finger salute, go put your gun in the safe.

You didn't get a permit to carry to make this a more polite society. You got it to defend your life, and those of your loved ones.

In most states, deadly force can only be used to defend against deadly force or force with by you may be subject to grave bodily injury. I've never ever heard of someone dying from finger pointing...

In Texas, you have a bit more leeway than some states... But as liberal as the castle doctrine laws are in your state, I don't think there's a provision for lethal defense against rudeness.

Got $10 or so?
  1. Get a copy of In The Gravest Extreme by Massad Ayoob.
  2. Put the gun away until you've read it, twice, and could pass a test on it (just to give yourself an incentive to LEARN). Don't worry, it's a small, short book. And,
  3. if you ain't got the ten spot, go to the library and read it for free (or an inter library loan fee).


Now, after you've done that, come back and read a lot of the posts and responses here... Then start asking questions.

I don't mean to come off such a pri ... nce yeah, prince. That's what I was going to say....

But if you don't even have a basic clue... you have to get one before you do something you will regret for the rest of your life, and the rest of the carry community will have to be associated with for the rest of theirs.
 
#8 ·
I was working with 14-15 yo scouts a few years back and one had recently turned 16, started driving and told me that someone had walked up to his car and punched him in the face. I asked him what he had done - "I flipped him off".
It was a cheap lesson for him on how not to handle situations and that actions have consequences - sometimes unintended consequesnce.
 
#11 ·
Well when I was young and not so smart, (long before CC was possible) I might have returned the favor. Now that I'm too old to fight and too slow to run, I'd ignore them anyway.

Ask yourself this question. Is someone flipping you the bird worth taking a possible butt whipping over? Remember, no matter how many years of MA you may or may not have taken, there is someone out there better at it than you are.
 
#14 ·
This is what you SHOULD NOT do....
 
#15 ·
You need to study Chapter Nine of the Penal Code. Specifically 9.31- Self Defense.
In a nutshell, you can not legally use any force to respond to verbal provocation alone.
If you provoke them (give them the finger back) you have a bunch of hoops to jump through before you can claim self defense as a justification.
If you don't know them, why would you care if they flipped you off? Does the position of a single finger on a hand stuck out of a car driving by materially change anything in your world? Is it going to give you bad breath and make your hair fall out and give your car crappy gas mileage? Douche bags like that are just trying to inflate their egos. For them to succeed they need to be noticed and reacted to. Life is too short to waste time with stupid people.
 
#16 ·
Kinda like somebody calls you up and threatens you,you tell him I'm right here come on over,he shows up and you shoot him claiming SD,you are in deep doo doo since you escalated the confrontation and provoked him
 
#48 ·
I would like to hear a serious argument on this one. If you read 9.32 very carefully you will see that the reference to provoking is in relation to a(2)(B). Self defense is presumed reasonable in the following.

(b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force
was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is
presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom
the deadly force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to
enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle,
or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to
remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation,
vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
Based on your argument, if they are beating your door in, and you tell them, don't come in here, I have a gun and will shoot you, you are provoking that person and would be in trouble. I don't buy that. If they are unlawfully entering or attempting to enter your home/auto/business your actions are reasonable.

Of course this has little to do with the OP's post, but that didn't really require much discussion, and that question has been more than answered. Although the OP should be aware of the following statutes if he isn't already. Don't go flipping the bird at people or you might find yourself charged with this.

PC §42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT.
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:
(1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public
place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate
breach of the peace;
(2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and
the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the
peace;
 
#21 ·
This is a great thread and people are hitting all around the basic idea but nobody's really hit the bullseye.

Here it is - and this is a hard won, hard learned lesson.

You're doing an activity, enjoying yourself. Somebody gets you in a tizzy. If you let that thought take hold, guess what? You are no longer enjoying your day. You are filled with other thoughts. Anger, resentment, pity, even good stuff like making fun of someone being mad.

NONE OF THIS IS of your original intent. It has ALL prevented you from enjoying the activity you had been engaged in...say riding your bike or bird watching.

HOW stupid we all are that we let our emotions prevent us from being happy. We are truly our own worst enemy when we let thoughts intrude, and yet it's almost impossible. Note I said 'almost'.

So the reason you don't flip the bird, get mad, start something is more because you don't want to lose your center, your mastery of your 'self' than that 'you'd better not, you'll go to jail'.

Why? Because the route to inner peace and being centered comes from INSIDE - it is not external (i.e. note how silly it is to TELL someone not to be upset. That never works. But if they can learn to be calm from inside it always works).

So all the answers showing how you must not engage a hostile are correct, but the true root of it is self-mastery and enjoyment of the moment that you were in and not being 'disturbed'. That's my take, anyhow.
 
#22 ·
Only one flaw, you forget some folks like conflict. Inner piece and zen like meditation doesnt work for all.

The OP should just smile and nod, it works in the real world.
 
#23 ·
I get yells and honks all the time while I'm riding my bicycle. I just smile and wave, once again reassured my concealed carry set-up is functioning exactly as I intend.
 
#26 ·
Then I lose because it's not SD right?
What have you lost?

Someone that you dont know, drives by and flips you off.

So what? They arent shooting at you, they arent throwing any thing at you, they arent even talking to you.

SD never even entered into the equation. It was never there.




Flipping someone off because they flipped you of for no other reason that they could, is not much diferent than arguing with an idiot. Its a no win situation and you've lowered yourself to their level of stupidity.
 
#38 ·
thats not what he meant, he was asking if he flips them the bird also and they come back and attack him and he shoots, will he lose in court, not because he lost something due to be flipped off
 
#28 ·
You call the sheriffs dept and advise them of the possibly that a couple guys are out driving the neighborhood and up to no good. Give them as much information as you can regarding the car, how many, and so on, then finish your smoke and go back inside and relax, but stay vigilant. No need to pick a fight that wasn't a fight to start off with, just some punks pounding their chests trying to impress each other.:hand1:
 
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#32 ·
To WillyNilly,

Respond to what? A finger?

Your profile states that you are retired, you enjoy computers and guitars right? I am pretty sure you didn't get to retirement age by responding with violence every time someone slammed your computer OS, or called your favorite guitar trash. You probably have had someone call you names before and didn't run for the butcher knife. Why on earth would you respond to the finger by brandishing a firearm?

I don't live in Texas, but I have friends that do, and they carry. You did not get that idea from your CC class instructor, and if you would have asked your question in class, you should have been shown the door. At least that is what I do when I teach.

I can only hope that you posted your question to rile the ranks. If so, you succeeded, if not, by all means sell your guns so that you don't end up giving the anti gunners fodder for their vomit.
 
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#33 ·
I will just say, I don't agree with many of the posts on this subject. And, I don't agree with the legal ramifications.

Maybe it has to do with the laws in different places. Here, the "key" is .... if you instigated and initiated the confrontation and the contact, or not.
 
#34 ·
Don't get me wrong guys, I never responded to fingers or yelled epitaphs so I created a scenario. I didn't say I'll pull my gun from a finger flipping but in a confrontation. There's a difference. Suppose they stopped because I didn't respond and try to aggravate me into responding. I'll still ignore them but when they get out of the car the situation changes. That's another scenario but maybe I didn't say it right.

I don't let them get to me because as y'all said they're out for kicks and inflate their egos. What if I did respond and having a gun on me will only make matters worse. That was my question.
 
#55 ·
I'd say leaving would be your best option. And retreating is a must just about anywhere before using lethal force. Maybe not on your own property but in front of a jury, if you could have gotten in the house, it's not going to look good.
 
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