At one time, the founding fathers of this country were reffered to as" vigilantes" along with several other names that were not so flattering.I guess it just depends on what side you are on at the time.
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At one time, the founding fathers of this country were reffered to as" vigilantes" along with several other names that were not so flattering.I guess it just depends on what side you are on at the time.
9mm you are so right I see it here everyday. To avoid laws that do not allow military to perform LE duties in the states they will use contractors to fill the gap. Just as they used Blackwater in New Orleans. Contracts have already been offered in some areas where private companies have a vested government interest.
We will just have to wait and see.
Well, considering that most statistics regarding violent crime are pretty positive these days (much lower than a decade or two ago), and considering that upwards of ninety percent of court cases result in pleas or conviction, the need doesn't really seem to be there?
Figures don't lie but lairs can figure. I don't trust the statistics as the way there collected does not compare to what their compared against from the past. I do know a large part of our population lives in fear and that was not the case as I recall it in the 50's and 60's. As such I disagree with your last statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmael
JUST AN EXAMPLE:
Vigilantes going after gang men
(The Freeman) Updated April 01, 2010 12:00 AM Comments (0) View comments
CEBU, Philippines - Vigilantes are also tracking down gang members.
Senior Supt. Patrocinio Comendador, director of Cebu City Police Office, told reporters yesterday that they received an intelligence report that vigilantes are now hunting down gang members.
Comendador said records showed that gang-related incidents in the city have increased by 500 percent this year.
"Sigon sa report na amo nadawat, nagka-interest na sad sila karon sa mga gang members," Comendador said.
The so-called vigilantes are reportedly policemen “trained and paid” to kill criminals.
Many of those who have criminal records have been gunned down in vigilante-style manner few years ago.
Meanwhile, Comendador has directed Sr. Insp. Bonifacio Garciano, head of the Anti-Street Hoodlum Operating Team (A-SHOT), to go after those involved in gang-related shooting in Barangay Mabolo last Tuesday.
Jordan Rosales, 18, of Barangay Subangdaku, Mandaue City, and alleged member of Crips, died after he was hit in the chest when unidentified assailants believed to be members of Bloods opened fire at him.
Garciano was directed to look for the perpetrators so any plans by the vigilantes to kill them may be pre-empted, said Comendador.
Garciano said most gang members charged for petty crimes are now freed, adding that they are the same persons who perpetrate gang-related crimes in the city.
Comendador said this development should serve as warning to notorious gang members.
"We can only do so much for them by enforcing the law. This should also serve as a warning for them," he said.
Asked if vigilantes really exist, he said there are people that take the law in their hands because of the delay in the justice system. – Niña G. Sumacot/LPM (THE FREEMAN)
At the current rate of decline we may all end up like this whether we want to or not.
Rebels, of course. Vigilantes, no. Not the founders. All were delegated by elected assemblies of the various colonies.Quote:
Originally Posted by HotGuns
Uh, the same could be said of the Peronistas who made people disappear. There is nothing laudable about this, and not even in the Philippines. Which isn't as chaotic as often thought by outsiders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickx50
This happens all the time with all manner of things from keeping up the parks to running an efficient trial calendar. The solution is the election or the recall where available. One of the more interesting points made in "Democracy in America" concerned the frequency with which we hold elections, which affords us the ability to quickly correct our errors. So if we have elected a government which chooses to do nothing, or not enough, we have to conclude either of two things to be true. They are doing what the folks want or weQuote:
Originally Posted by mcp1810
have it in our hands to change it. We have to believe in this as true or we can not say we are supporters of our constitution.
A judicial process was used and thus the actions taken subsequent were lawful. We did this too-- "Wanted Dead or Alive." This has nothing to do with vigilantism.Quote:
ETA: Also harkening back to Jolly Olde England reference your post above, lets not forget the the origins of the term "outlaw". If one was declared an outlaw by legal authority any citizen coming in contact with the outlaw was free to kill them on sight. IIRC land owners were at times obligated to do so.
Not really. See my immediate above comment.Quote:
So there is historical precedent for the individual citizen to act in the absence for whatever reason of official government agents.
Yes, but this was within the framework of governmental oversight. Somewhere along the way a legal official made the determination that an individual was an outlaw. That is quite different from roving groups ofQuote:
Dealing with outlaws in such a way was understood to be part of the social contract one was bound to as a "good citizen" in the society from which many of our customs and laws have come.
self-appointed vigilantes picking their own targets without the existence of a prior lawful order permitting their actions.
One huge problem with Illegals and Civilians trying to prevent Border crossings is that you are treading in dangerous waters,you use any force physical or otherwise against an Illegal and you will very likely face prosecution,there is a bunch of ranchers about 40 miles north of me that are tired of people crossing their land,they drop off Illegals so they can walk around the Falfurrias Checkpoint,the landowners go out at night to watch trails and call Border Patrol when they see movement,they aren't supposed to be armed,but I will bet most have Concealed handguns
The only other problem with what duk is saying is I know it has happened that a ranch owner has detained illegals and the owner gets sued and LOSES at the end. Where I live (different area as duk) I have had illegals run through my yard and try and get into my grandmother fenced yard (lives right next door to me) 2 in the morning you see copters adn border patrol shooting in 4 cars at a time. Wasnt this bad until they opened up a section that leads to the street next door.
The reason I titled this Vigilante as opposed to other choices is I was alluding to not so legal groups of other wise "good?" but frustrated citizens hunting down BG's including but not limited border crossers and street gang members. In such cases I'd expect few to be detained or arrested. Reason being if it ever comes down to this, and it has in a few places, It's because the system is not working and long term detention or deportation would not be anticipated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade115
The term Terrorist Insurgent comes to mind.. but might not have been thought of back then... But I'd bet that many were branded Traitors.Quote:
Originally Posted by HotGuns
First sentence above simply says that frustrated good guys sometimes turn to "not so legal" solutions. At that point, when the actions are "not so legal" they are no longer good guys. They are guys who have made a deliberate decision to violate the law and to put their judgment above the law. Our jails are full of folks who think like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickx50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9MMare
Of big-picture effectiveness - I agree that of vigilantism is minimal as it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by 9MMare
Homeland security is bipartisan. The Customs and Border Patrol workforce has grown over 40% in the last six fiscal years with a greater percentage of the total force allocated to the southwestern border. In the real world of limited resources, as our nation fights wars in foreign countries, at increasing costs per mile along our southwestern border, with more barriers - physical and electronic - southwestern border staffing and resources have never been higher than under Obama.
Why say that government is "too little too late", etc., with southwest border protection?:confused: You say that you are a "Dem". The beefier border is a bipartisan effort as it has been for years.
Article 1 and Article 2 discuss the increasing role of the NG on the southwest border in support of US Customs and Border Protection.Quote:
National Guard troops in four states are in training today as they prepare to join colleagues already supporting Border Patrol agents on the nation’s Southwest border.
Besides, while you refer to "borders", mostly invoking activity along the southwestern border, the US Government reports that the risk of terrorism is far greater from the Canadian border.
Can you acknowledge ongoing efforts and explain what more you expect of our government in border protection along 1,951 miles from San Diego, California, to Brownsville, Texas and about 4,000 miles of Canadian border - plus about 2,000 miles of approaches by sea including Puerto Rico!?Quote:
Originally Posted by oakchas
Benjamin Franklin at the signing of the Declaration of IndependenceQuote:
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
Neighborhood and Community Watch is great and works to heighten awareness and to report better neighborhood crime and so reduce it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickx50
To paraphrase Franklin, "A group all wrapped up in itself makes a small package". I'm not clear on the legality of armed vigilantes, but their efficacy - ethical force - is inferior to that of sworn officers. Armed vigilantes are a slap in the face of an appropriate response from federal authorities on the borders and in the face of local and state authorities elsewhere. Armed vigilantes too much risk giving law-abiding, defensive-carrying armed citizens a bad rap.