Vigilantes

This is a discussion on Vigilantes within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; There are reports of several somewhat successful vigilante groups in other countries fighting crime, mostly drug gangs. Also a couple in the US. Including (with ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Maverickx50's Avatar
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    Vigilantes

    There are reports of several somewhat successful vigilante groups in other countries fighting crime, mostly drug gangs. Also a couple in the US. Including (with some reservations to the term vigilante) those citizens patrolling the Mexican borders. As or if our problems in the US increase do you expect more vigilante action here? Do you feel they can have a long term positive effect? Do you think they will fall into the same sort of gang behaviors they are fighting and just become part of the problem?

    I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand I'm thinking armed citizens need to take charge of their own neighborhood security. On the other hand a large group of "Mall Ningas" full of themselves and carrying guns does not make me feel a whole lot safer either.
    I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.

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    Generally, anything more than groups of folks using their eyes and reporting to the lawful authorities is going to
    cause more trouble than it fixes. There's always a "stupid one" in any group, or someone with less than
    fully altruistic motives, and they will screw it up.

    Leave law enforcement to those who are supposed to do it. Leave military matters to those who are supposed to do it. Leave mall security to those hired to do it. And remember that your license doesn't make you a police man or a soldier.
    9MMare, hk45c, RMS and 3 others like this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Ex Member Array tcon67's Avatar
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    I am more inclined to believe community "Militias" will be what rises if/when the US slides to that point. "Vigilantes" as I understand them are more of a mob gang that is trying to force others to follow their rule of law, and militias are more a defender of the laws in the absents of law enforcement. With the country's economy forcing funding cuts and cutbacks in law enforcement, I can see that coming.

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    Senior Member Array Maverickx50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Generally, anything more than groups of folks using their eyes and reporting to the lawful authorities is going to
    cause more trouble than it fixes. There's always a "stupid one" in any group, or someone with less than
    fully altruistic motives, and they will screw it up.

    Leave law enforcement to those who are supposed to do it. Leave military matters to those who are supposed to do it. Leave mall security to those hired to do it. And remember that your license doesn't make you a police man or a soldier.
    Under most normal circumstances I fully agree. But can they? are they? will they? All has fallen completely apart in Mexico and several other countries and It's not looking too good here in many places as well. Still not saying I don't agree just saying we very likely will start seeing more of this if something drastic isn't done soon to curb the BG's
    guardmt likes this.
    I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.

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    What we are seeing Mexico is, I believe, the result of an extremely well-armed, highly-financed and highly-motivated criminal element inflicted upon an unarmed, poorly-protected citizenry.
    baren likes this.

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    What we are seeing Mexico is, I believe, the result of an extremely well-armed, highly-financed and highly-motivated criminal element inflicted upon an unarmed, poorly-protected citizenry.
    I'd say this about explains it!
    guardmt likes this.
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    Senior Member Array threefeathers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post


    I'd say this about explains it!
    Very well said.

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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    And, as usual, the peasants get caught in the cross-fire.

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    No I dont believe in vigilantes to guard the borders.

    While I do not support illegal immigration, I dont support vigilantes 'hunting' them. I also dont support vigilantes going after the Mexican drug gangs...because they will kick the vigilantes' butts...sorry, but they have absolutely NO hesitation to kill and have everything to gain by doing so and instilling more fear.

    OTOH, I do believe that we need to develop MUCH MUCH better protection of our borders for other reasons than illegal imm.....terrorism, epidemics, and the drug gangs are enormous threats that we are in ZERO position to stop if and "when" these threats arize. as they will...and 'reacting' wont do anything. We need to be be proactive, now.

    And yes, I am a (semi-liberal) Democrat
    noway2 likes this.
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    I think they are walking a fine line. I would venture to say that there are some who are participating for less than altruistic reasons. There are others who I believe are only doing what they truly believe is necessary to protect their community. Until the government accepts it's constitutional obligations under Article 4 Section 4 and gets serious about securing the border with Mexico these groups will continue to be active. As long as groups are active there will be your racist xenophobes lining up to join them. As long as these "unregulated" groups exist there is great potential for gang like behavior. Even with the groups that do a good job of policing themselves there are going to be opportunities for the people that are rejected for whatever reason to find each other and form their own groups.
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    Found elsewhere on the net:

    "State and federal governments are given what amounts to a MONOPOLY over the use of force and violence to implement the law. Private citizens may use force and violence to defend their lives and their property, and in some instances the lives and property of others, but they must do so under the specific circumstances allowed by the law if they wish to avoid being prosecuted for a crime themselves. Private individuals may also make "citizen arrests," but the circumstances in which the law authorizes them to do so are very narrow. Citizens are often limited to making arrests for felonies committed in their presence. By taking law into their own hands, vigilantes flout the rule of law, effectively becoming lawmaker, police officer, judge, jury, and appellate court for the cause they are pursuing."

    Read more: Vigilantism - Law, Private, Vigilantes, Justice, United, and Vigilante - JRank Articles Vigilantism - Law, Private, Vigilantes, Justice, United, and Vigilante - JRank Articles
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    The problem with vigilantes is they usually operate with a mob mentality. In years past lynch mobs metered out vigilante justice. Far too many innocent people were murdered by mob violence, their only crime being they were not part of the mob. No evidence was needed, no trial was held, just a rope and something to throw it over.

    While I have no sympathy for criminals, and believe justice should be handled quickly. Without laws and a judicial system, what will separate us from the criminals?
    Catfan63 likes this.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    No I dont believe in vigilantes to guard the borders.

    While I do not support illegal immigration, I dont support vigilantes 'hunting' them. I also dont support vigilantes going after the Mexican drug gangs...because they will kick the vigilantes' butts...sorry, but they have absolutely NO hesitation to kill and have everything to gain by doing so and instilling more fear.

    OTOH, I do believe that we need to develop MUCH MUCH better protection of our borders for other reasons than illegal imm.....terrorism, epidemics, and the drug gangs are enormous threats that we are in ZERO position to stop if and "when" these threats arize. as they will...and 'reacting' wont do anything. We need to be be proactive, now.

    And yes, I am a (semi-liberal) Democrat
    How do you feel about the drug cartel's sniper "hide" in a U.S. national park near the US border... I'm a semi-lib INDEPENDENT, too. But at some point we must say enough is enough.

    Since the gubmint has spent all our money, borrowing money from a private enterprise so it (the PRIVATE enterprise) could bail out some of it's own shady dealers; we're feeling it at local levels all over this country... newly minted police academy graduates handed a diploma in one hand and their pink slip in the other, furloughing LEO all over the country, no money to defend the borders...

    So, what are we to do? LEO/HD is spread too thin... who's left to be proactive?

    Citizenship has some responsibility. I don't know that being a vigilante is part of that responsibility... but we must do something. and soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    How do you feel about the drug cartel's sniper "hide" in a U.S. national park near the US border... I'm a semi-lib INDEPENDENT, too. But at some point we must say enough is enough.

    Since the gubmint has spent all our money, borrowing money from a private enterprise so it (the PRIVATE enterprise) could bail out some of it's own shady dealers; we're feeling it at local levels all over this country... newly minted police academy graduates handed a diploma in one hand and their pink slip in the other, furloughing LEO all over the country, no money to defend the borders...

    So, what are we to do? LEO/HD is spread too thin... who's left to be proactive?

    Citizenship has some responsibility. I don't know that being a vigilante is part of that responsibility... but we must do something. and soon.
    It is not part of citizenship responsibilities. It is the antithesis of citizenship responsibilities. Take it off the table of your thinking for your own well being.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    It may eventually come to that, but I think that we have a considerable ways to go before we get there.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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