Home invasion in my town. Should the homeowner have shot??? - Page 4

Home invasion in my town. Should the homeowner have shot???

This is a discussion on Home invasion in my town. Should the homeowner have shot??? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; That would be my interpretation....

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Thread: Home invasion in my town. Should the homeowner have shot???

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    That would be my interpretation.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".


  2. #47
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    In SC we have Castle Doctrine; forcible entry to commit felony--kill him. I would appreciate replies that address the fact that the perp does not have a firearm and is leaving the house and you shot him in the back--therein lies the real question, IMO. How do you justify deadly force now that the forcibly entry is a thing of the past.

  3. #48
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm rider View Post
    OK Maybe i didn't word my question the right way. I see the age of the victim is the major factor for the decision to shoot. But my question was kinda geared toward if it was you who was robbed. What if age is not a factor and he was simply walking out the door after stealing that amount of money from your house?
    Do you let him walk with your 40k even though he is not a life threat to you since he is walking out the door?
    In SC, it would be a good shoot. You break into my home, you are going to see the serious side of my firearm.

    Also, in SC, at night, you can use any force necessary up to deadly force to stop a felony.

  4. #49
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    If you are talking about he has already committed the act and is on the way out, away from me, no, I would not shoot.
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

  5. #50
    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    From what I understand of the Castle Doctrine in SC, it wouldn't be a good shoot if he was already leaving. Maybe if you could use the gun to order him to stop, etc. and wait for LEO's to arrive. But, the shoot, as he's walking away... that would be a bad shoot, I believe. If he's still facing you, or as he's on the way In.
    "Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"

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    Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.

  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    I disagree with your first reply phreddy and do agree with RevolvingMag. I agree with the second part of your reply ph, which agrees somewhat with Mag. At night, you can effect a citizen's arrest and if he keeps going out your door you can shoot him in the back--BUT ONLY AT NIGHT In daytime, there has to be a presumption of imminent danger tied to the criminal act and when he is going out the door, even though it is with your money--it is a touchy decision--prosecutor may not follow thru but civil acts will follow. C'mon ph, where is the imminent danger or presumption of same as he runs away from your house--say what you want but you will look silly before a judge and jury explaining that scenario. Don't get me wrong---I would like nothing better than to pulverize the guy with my shotgun right between his shoulder blades---now if he were to turn around--yada yada yada.

  7. #52
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Anglo View Post
    Anybody breaking into my home automatically gets banged in the head twice. If he survives two .45ACP`s I`ll buy him a beer.
    I have to agree with this...kick open my door & anything goes!
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

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    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

  8. #53
    Senior Member Array Chief1297's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZX9RCAM View Post
    I have to agree with this...kick open my door & anything goes!
    +50,000. The debating period ended upon his entry into my home.
    Equality does not exist in the real world - it is a fiction to help the self esteem of those people who consistently fail to succeed.
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  9. #54
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    I agree with Bark'n on this one. Besides the man is a fleeing felon. He is not out the door and still a threat. Read Massad's recent article on the subject.
    Semper Fi

  10. #55
    HK
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    The minute he laid his hands on "my old lady", he put me in "Fear for My life"...

    The fact he was leaving?

    My wife will swear in court that we both heard him say "I'm going out to my car, to get my gun, and come back and kill you BOTH!"

    Hence the reason I shot him 5 times in the back and twice in the melon!

    Ya'll can lawyer it out all you want - but I'd be willing to spend the rest of my life in prison if ANYONE laid a finger on my Wife or kid! NO REGRETS!

    HK

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    If I was 90 I'd shoot the guy.

    Even if there is an indictment, the trial could be delayed till I was dead.

    Even if convicted of murder, what are they going to do about it? death sentence? Yup, that would really scare me. Life sentence? Ha.
    Hmm...maybe by then you're worried about going to that Big Range In The Sky...and might not want an (arguably) unjustified killing on your "record?" Just speculating, making no religious comment necessarily.
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre

  12. #57
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    Well the thread has kind of split. First yes by all means he kicks in the door, castle doctrine, disparity of force and so on justified in shooting no disagreement there.

    Again depending on your state laws, you would have to do some mighty fancy talking to justify shooting him after he has exited and is no longer posing a threat. Yes there are places where the law can dictate your right to shoot a fleeing felon, but you better have your ducks in a row before doing it. With that being said 85-90 years old yeah he could probably get away with the criminal portion the civil portion would/could eat his or anyone elses's lunch. Remember the he coulda, woulda, he might have done, will probably not cut it.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    In Mi. you would NOT be justified in shooting IF he was out of the bldg. when you popped him, as per the law below;

    Honest and Reasonable Belief
    The Act (PA 311) creates a rebuttable presumption that a person using force has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault will occur if the person using force honestly and reasonably believes the person against whom force is used is any of the following:
    1. In the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business
    2. In the process of committing a home invasion
    3. Has committed a breaking and entering or home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business 4. Is attempting to unlawfully remove a person from a dwelling, business, or vehicle against his or her will



    I wish Mi. would step up this part of the game in favor of the homeowner, because it would bew a felony, in some states as Guantes has pointed out.

    Who's to say they wouldn't be back at a later date for more pillaging.
    Yeah, Michigan does not allow you to protect property using deadly force, but if the guy is still in the house then he's a nice target. Doesn't matter if his facing me or not, although facing me would look better to a jury.
    Also, my CPL instructor pointed out that if your olding onto one end of a peice of property ahd he has the other, an attempt to get you to let go is an assault on you not just an attempt to grab your property. I guess I would prevent him from exiting with my property.

  14. #59
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    I disagree with your first reply phreddy and do agree with RevolvingMag. I agree with the second part of your reply ph, which agrees somewhat with Mag. At night, you can effect a citizen's arrest and if he keeps going out your door you can shoot him in the back--BUT ONLY AT NIGHT In daytime, there has to be a presumption of imminent danger tied to the criminal act and when he is going out the door, even though it is with your money--it is a touchy decision--prosecutor may not follow thru but civil acts will follow. C'mon ph, where is the imminent danger or presumption of same as he runs away from your house--say what you want but you will look silly before a judge and jury explaining that scenario. Don't get me wrong---I would like nothing better than to pulverize the guy with my shotgun right between his shoulder blades---now if he were to turn around--yada yada yada.
    I assumed this was at night, but when I go back and read, I see no time was mentioned. I also repsonded from what I would do, react at the break-in, not wait until he was leaving. In the case of the guy leaving, if he was still in the house, I believe the victims could get away with shooting. If he had already left, no so clear. My opinion of the good shoot is if the BG is still in the house is not so much covered by statute, but mostly by the way I see leo's responding in SC to home invasions and self defense situation. A lot of leeway is given to home-owners and good guys in general. Also, after reading about the Petit family, I believe I could argue that the BG is still a threat as long as I can see him.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    In SC we have Castle Doctrine; forcible entry to commit felony--kill him. I would appreciate replies that address the fact that the perp does not have a firearm and is leaving the house and you shot him in the back--therein lies the real question, IMO. How do you justify deadly force now that the forcibly entry is a thing of the past.
    Umm... Because he's still in the house and is assumed to still be a danger.

    I wouldn't shoot him once he's out on the front porch making a bee line towards the road, but as long as he's still inside the house he's fair game.

    Now in Missouri, Castle Doctrine extends to the end of your property, but after he's exited the house, I would consider the threat over at that point and not shoot him. But inside the house, at age 90, yeah, shoot him.

    You can't say the forcible felony is over with as soon as he finished kicking down the door. You don't simply separate the events. He broke in, he's ransacking the house, he's stealing $40,000 I'm gonna shoot him before he gets out the door.
    Guantes and BkCo1 like this.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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