Input and thoughts on burglary

This is a discussion on Input and thoughts on burglary within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In my state, Florida Statue on Justifiable Use of Force #776.013 generally states that user of force is presumed to have reasonable fear of great ...

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  1. #46
    Member Array beckavebob's Avatar
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    In my state, Florida Statue on Justifiable Use of Force #776.013 generally states that user of force is presumed to have reasonable fear of great bodily harm if encountering a burglary.

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    You come home from an outing, walk in and find a misunderstood individual in your house carrying your flat screen so both hands are full and no weapon is visible. Of course there is the inevitable what are you doing blah blah blah. Your gun comes out and the individual says hey I am not armed and I won't hurt you I just came to take all your stuff. Do you attempt to hold them for the police? What if they have the balls to keep walking past your gun and towards the door? Lawyer says A) cannot shoot as you are in no danger....

    I brought up the possibility of a hidden weapon but lawyer countered with BG snuck into your house because he knew it was empty so had no intention of encountering me (not home invasion), and maybe he is not wearing a shirt with only athletic shorts and sneakers, no place to hide a weapon.
    From what law school did this lawyer graduate? Just curious.

    Thief says he's not armed and won't hurt you - you are supposed to believe that? What if the thief tosses the TV at you and pulls a gun stuffed in his waistband that you can't see because your view is obstructed?

    If you are really worried about this, I can only suggest you read the law and then ask an attorney (I'm a lawyer, but not an Internet lawyer, and not a crim law lawyer).

    As for the lawyer's comments, sounds like he's still taking law school exams.

    As for me, I'd be in *great fear* for my life. I'm in a room, probably less than 10 feet away from a criminal that thought it worth the risk to break into someone's home and take their property, and in less than a second the situation can become deadly if he is armed (and even if he is not armed with a gun).

  4. #48
    Senior Member Array TonyDTrigger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beckavebob View Post
    In my state, Florida Statue on Justifiable Use of Force #776.013 generally states that user of force is presumed to have reasonable fear of great bodily harm if encountering a burglary.
    Yes, FL the 1st state to adopt the castle doctrine in 1985, and this year it goes every where you are legally allowed to be. There is no need to retreat at an ATM or anywhere.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Doubledown
    You come home from an outing, walk in and find a misunderstood individual in your house carrying your flat screen so both hands are full and no weapon is visible. Of course there is the inevitable what are you doing blah blah blah. Your gun comes out and the individual says hey I am not armed and I won't hurt you I just came to take all your stuff. Do you attempt to hold them for the police? What if they have the balls to keep walking past your gun and towards the door? Lawyer says A) cannot shoot as you are in no danger....

    I brought up the possibility of a hidden weapon but lawyer countered with BG snuck into your house because he knew it was empty so had no intention of encountering me (not home invasion), and maybe he is not wearing a shirt with only athletic shorts and sneakers, no place to hide a weapon.
    This lawyer is making the assumption that the robber is a man of his word and would not lie about being unarmed. That we are mind readers and will know the robber has no intent to hurt us?

    Michael

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    This lawyer is making the assumption that the robber is a man of his word and would not lie about being unarmed. That we are mind readers and will know the robber has no intent to hurt us?
    And the old saying, there is no honor among thieves applies here. It is intuitively obvious that the BG is less than honorable given his present actions. In a hierarchy of transgressions, I suspect that most would rate lying as a lesser offense than stealing or grand theft. Therefore if they have shown themselves to be willing and capable of a more serious crime, how could we possibly expect them to not be willing and capable of committing lesser ones. In fact, given the circumstances, it would be safe to assume that they ARE lying and by direct extension that they ARE armed and DO INTEND to harm you.

  7. #51
    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    Thanks to all that responded. I already know what I would do in this situation as this is one of many scenarios I have run through in my head. Assuming I am coming home alone I will immediately draw and aim at the individual. Order him to put down the item and get on the floor any motion in my direction will result in holes being made. If I am with my wife and/or son: A loud STOP NOW as the gun comes out, should stop my family in their tracks, if they freeze rather than react as taught I order them out of the house to call 911 and get in the car and go then the rest plays out as it will.

    I expect and pray to never need a weapon but plan in case. Where we live many people still leave their keys in the car, even in the Wal-Mart parking lot, and a convenience store robbery is the lead story for two days but as you all know you can never be too careful.

    Oh and by the way, found out the lawyer was the hosts sister-in-laws boy friend and they have since parted company.

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    If you break into my house, you made some choices, now you have to deal with the consequences when I come home. Whatever that may be depends on the idiot who is in there.

  9. #53
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    I believe I would draw down and order him down. I'm a big guy at 6'3" / 250 and as such can be quite persuasive when I need to be. What happens next is one of three things: he flees out another door away from me and I let him go, he complies, or he doesn't comply which means he has other intent and gets shot.

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    In Tennessee, you can use force to detain the individual, but you probably can't legally use deadly force. Spraying him with mace and holding him for the police would probably be legal. That's my interpretation. Naturally the police and the courts may arrive at a different decision altogether. That's the reason my attorney's number is handy in my cell phone.

    39-11-614. Protection of property.

    (a) A person in lawful possession of real or personal property is justified in threatening or using force against another, when and to the degree it is reasonably believed the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.

    (b) A person who has been unlawfully dispossessed of real or personal property is justified in threatening or using force against the other, when and to the degree it is reasonably believed the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property, if the person threatens or uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession:

    (1) The person reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when the other dispossessed the person; and

    (2) The other accomplished the dispossession by threatening or using force against the person.

    (c) Unless a person is justified in using deadly force as otherwise provided by law, a person is not justified in using deadly force to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on real estate or unlawful interference with personal property.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  11. #55
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    Hey Gene83: Read the TN law more than once looking for the twisted logic and it is there just like it is in many states. No matter how you look at it, if someone is walking out your door, back to you and holding your TV set and you shoot him in the back you may very well have a problem. You read Item (b) and it sounds sanctionable but then you go to (b)(2) and (c) and you seem to be back to square one again. I tend to believe that in most states (if not all but I do not know) imminent threat is still numero uno for using your firearm; exactly where this imminent threat is when someone is holding your TV set as they walk away from you---please explain that to me. Now you can go after him and perform some form of citizen's arrest etal but where that goes, if he is not armed and he just ignores you--I do not know--maybe Guantes has the answer. Do you tackle him? Do you throw a rope over him? What? Suppose he does have a firearm and kills you---I guess its nice to know before you die that your TV set is safe. What if he is not armed and tries getting away from you and you use your firearm and kill him? Burglary--yes. Presumption of imminent death--yes. Who brought that about after you ran after him and started the physical attack? In this country you will be paying for an attorney for a civil case brought by his weeping widow and children--"he did not have to die over a TV set--boo hoo boo hoo"

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey Gene83: Read the TN law more than once looking for the twisted logic and it is there just like it is in many states. No matter how you look at it, if someone is walking out your door, back to you and holding your TV set and you shoot him in the back you may very well have a problem. You read Item (b) and it sounds sanctionable but then you go to (b)(2) and (c) and you seem to be back to square one again. I tend to believe that in most states (if not all but I do not know) imminent threat is still numero uno for using your firearm; exactly where this imminent threat is when someone is holding your TV set as they walk away from you---please explain that to me. Now you can go after him and perform some form of citizen's arrest etal but where that goes, if he is not armed and he just ignores you--I do not know--maybe Guantes has the answer. Do you tackle him? Do you throw a rope over him? What? Suppose he does have a firearm and kills you---I guess its nice to know before you die that your TV set is safe. What if he is not armed and tries getting away from you and you use your firearm and kill him? Burglary--yes. Presumption of imminent death--yes. Who brought that about after you ran after him and started the physical attack? In this country you will be paying for an attorney for a civil case brought by his weeping widow and children--"he did not have to die over a TV set--boo hoo boo hoo"
    Now you see why I said "probably" so many times. You can probably use force to hold him, but you probably can't use deadly force. Most legislators are attornies and they write legislation in this manner to keep their brother attornies in business. If there is no other threat, for the cost of a replacement television that's insured anyway, I'm not shooting anybody. I probably won't hold the door for him and give him a fresh set of batteries for the remote though.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  13. #57
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    Sounds like the lawyer is a former prosecutor from the United Kingdom where it is against the law to interfere with criminals.

    I thought we fought a war so we didn't have to live like they do across the pond.
    atctimmy likes this.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Sounds like the lawyer is a former prosecutor from the United Kingdom where it is against the law to interfere with criminals.

    I thought we fought a war so we didn't have to live like they do across the pond.
    Men fight for freedom, then they begin to accumulate laws to take it away from themselves.
    ~ Author Unknown
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    In my home, I'll always assume the worst...no talking...entering my home uninvited will be considered a serious threat to me and mine...'nuff' said.
    Same rule holds for my home also!!!!!
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness,
    nor the arrow for its swiftness,
    nor the warrior for his glory.
    I love only that which they defend.
    -J.R.R. Tolkien

  16. #60
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    Burglar in my home and he keeps advancing on me when I have him at gunpoint? I can assume two things... Either he has a weapon I'm not seeing, or he believes he can disarm me and use my gun against me.

    Anyone who keeps advancing on you when you have them at gunpoint should be considered dangerous enough to kill you.

    A logical person who intends to do no harm would not keep coming towards you in the face of a drawn gun.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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