Input and thoughts on burglary

Input and thoughts on burglary

This is a discussion on Input and thoughts on burglary within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This came up at a party last weekend. The initiator is a lawyer (no idea how he got invited) discussing the new WI law. WI ...

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Thread: Input and thoughts on burglary

  1. #1
    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    Input and thoughts on burglary

    This came up at a party last weekend. The initiator is a lawyer (no idea how he got invited) discussing the new WI law. WI does not have Castle Doctrine but also has a stand your ground law so you do not need to retreat.

    You come home from an outing, walk in and find a misunderstood individual in your house carrying your flat screen so both hands are full and no weapon is visible. Of course there is the inevitable what are you doing blah blah blah. Your gun comes out and the individual says hey I am not armed and I won't hurt you I just came to take all your stuff. Do you attempt to hold them for the police? What if they have the balls to keep walking past your gun and towards the door? Lawyer says A) cannot shoot as you are in no danger. B) If you forcibly hold and do not allow to leave you are committing kidnapping/wrongful imprisonment and can be charged and or sued by the criminal civilly in WI because of the BS laws were are stuck with for now. I started trying to look this all up but got really sleepy after 1 paragraph. I do know that WI says you do not have the right to protect any property regardless as long as you are not threatened.

    I brought up the possibility of a hidden weapon but lawyer countered with BG snuck into your house because he knew it was empty so had no intention of encountering me (not home invasion), and maybe he is not wearing a shirt with only athletic shorts and sneakers, no place to hide a weapon.

    So do you let him go, maybe help him load his car. Do you hold him at gun point? Tackle and hold pinned to the ground? Or just shoot his butt.


  2. #2
    Member Array Spartacus100's Avatar
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    Someone in your home leaving with your tv in his hands doesnt give you grounds to use deadly force but you absolutely have the right to detain that individual. I would present my handgun and order him to the floor while i called 911. if someone is in my home to commit a crime, i take nothing for granted. as far as i know, he IS ARMED and i treat it as such. If he chooses to flee (with or without the tv) let him go. its not worth the long term frustration of a possible civil suit not to mention the cost. the tv should be covered by your homeowners insurance AND you should have a good description of the perp for the police. If he complies and gives up then you describe the situation to the 911 dispatcher. Where you are, the situation, what you are wearing, what the perp is wearing, THAT YOU ARE ARMED AND HOLDING AT GUNPOINT, and wait for the police. when they get there, comply with every order they give. and if he decides to attack, then you have a decision to make but at that point, i would believe deadly force would be warranted. As far as the kidnapping charge, that seems unfathomable but i dont live in WI so i dont know the laws there but i certainly know it wouldnt happen in Texas. Not sure if this is right but its how i would handle the situation.

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    As far as detaining him goes......
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/ag/opinio..._09_03Mohr.pdf
    The relevant part starts toward the bottom of page two.
    You might ask your lawyer friend if they have seen it or are familiar with the cases cited.
    You might also ask your lawyer friend if they can recommend a good lawyer.
    Last edited by mcp1810; October 5th, 2011 at 12:06 PM. Reason: spelling
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    The original premise of being unable to take any action against a burglar in the midst of a burglary in your own home, sounds like BS to me.
    atctimmy, oneshot and Bark'n like this.
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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Someone walking out of my house with my flat screen unarmed, while I may not have to right to shoot him the gun makes a geat club to hit him in the back of the head. He must have tripped and fell.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
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    Ever been hit over the head with a TV?


    The hell he ain't armed.

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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    He's gotta go out the way he came in, & you're in the way with your firearm.

    I'm not retreating from my own house because I know that there was another firearm in there. Is it on him? I'm not going to wait for him to get close enough to find out.

    If you drop the TV, I'm going to take that as a move for a weapon. Place the TV on ground gently & keep your hands where I can see them, no quick moves, & obey everything I tell you to do or I'll be forced to defend myself.


    By the way, Doubledown, was this lawyer a DA or something? (Now, THAT would be scary!)

    I'm not sure about WI's gun laws at this point, but in Minnesota, you have to be in fear for your life to use lethal force. The BG is in your home - your safe place. I'd be in fear for my life just encountering him there. As for the kidnapping malarkey, he came into your home illegally. I don't think that there would be any such reasoning when it's explained (at least in my case) that my uncertainty about the BG's full intentions, about whether he came with a weapon or has mine, & the fact that he's already committed one felony & I'm preventing him (under MN law) from committing another.

    I have to agree with mcp1810 on the good lawyer jab.
    tcon67 likes this.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    Why would you talk to the guy? Hit him, shoot him or run away and call the police. Do whatever you think best but DO IT RIGHT NOW! Be first! Standing around and talking to the BG is going to get you hurt or killed.

    As for me I live in a castle doctrine state so he gets drilled ASAP.
    tcon67, oneshot, JoJoGunn and 1 others like this.
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    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    First off I was at a party and had never met the lawyer before that night. He is a civil litigation putz discussing all of the potential he sees for his firms future litigation against CC. He/They do not agree with the right to self defense much less carrying a gun so he stated that like minded attorneys have begun discussions to make life as miserable as possible for anyone with a CC permit. As to the talking with the BG, any words would be in the form of commands with my weapon pointed directly in his face (to avoid the flat screen). Remember this scenario is presented by someone looking for a way to sue me and take everything I have and will ever have from my family and give it to the BG or his heirs after I put him down. I thought most of it was a stretch, but BG's do sue for falling through skylights or getting hurt during the commission of a crime and win. Based on the conversation (I only observed) they will sue for anything in civil court and if they don't get the money then you will spend it defending yourself from BS claims.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Does Wisconsin have civil protection SD statutes?
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Member Array oldcurmudgeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubledown View Post
    first off i was at a party and had never met the lawyer before that night. He is a civil litigation putz discussing all of the potential he sees for his firms future litigation against cc. He/they do not agree with the right to self defense much less carrying a gun so he stated that like minded attorneys have begun discussions to make life as miserable as possible for anyone with a cc permit. As to the talking with the bg, any words would be in the form of commands with my weapon pointed directly in his face (to avoid the flat screen). Remember this scenario is presented by someone looking for a way to sue me and take everything i have and will ever have from my family and give it to the bg or his heirs after i put him down. I thought most of it was a stretch, but bg's do sue for falling through skylights or getting hurt during the commission of a crime and win. Based on the conversation (i only observed) they will sue for anything in civil court and if they don't get the money then you will spend it defending yourself from bs claims.

    don't shoot the burglar!!!!

    Shoot the damn lawyer!!!

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    But of course there would be nothing to stop you from suing the burglar. You can't sleep anymore in the house. Every sound make you jump etc. You have suffered severe emotion distress as a result of his actions.
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    Member Array trayzor's Avatar
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    What is the law in your state? Castle Doctrine apply? If so, you are in better position to defend yourself. Check your state's laws.
    ...T. Ray

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    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Sounds like the lawyer is his accomplice........as far a walking in on a burglery of your own home......well, He would have had to kill our German Shepard...a family member.

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    Ex Member Array dcselby1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    This came up at a party last weekend. The initiator is a lawyer (no idea how he got invited) discussing the new WI law. WI does not have Castle Doctrine but also has a stand your ground law so you do not need to retreat.

    You come home from an outing, walk in and find a misunderstood individual in your house carrying your flat screen so both hands are full and no weapon is visible. Of course there is the inevitable what are you doing blah blah blah. Your gun comes out and the individual says hey I am not armed and I won't hurt you I just came to take all your stuff. Do you attempt to hold them for the police? What if they have the balls to keep walking past your gun and towards the door? Lawyer says A) cannot shoot as you are in no danger. B) If you forcibly hold and do not allow to leave you are committing kidnapping/wrongful imprisonment and can be charged and or sued by the criminal civilly in WI because of the BS laws were are stuck with for now. I started trying to look this all up but got really sleepy after 1 paragraph. I do know that WI says you do not have the right to protect any property regardless as long as you are not threatened.

    I brought up the possibility of a hidden weapon but lawyer countered with BG snuck into your house because he knew it was empty so had no intention of encountering me (not home invasion), and maybe he is not wearing a shirt with only athletic shorts and sneakers, no place to hide a weapon.

    So do you let him go, maybe help him load his car. Do you hold him at gun point? Tackle and hold pinned to the ground? Or just shoot his butt.
    A couple of options present themselves. I've noticed recently that I could buy a 60" Plasma HD TV for about HALF of what I paid for my current 50" a couple of years ago. SO, you COULD help him carry it to his car or truck. That would enable you to either get a newer BIGGER TV or his license number, because he was probably stupid enough to drive his (or his mom's) car to burgle your house. And if the insurance would not cover a bitter TV, just turn him in. Just a thought.
    sdprof, Rotorblade and MadMac like this.

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