SC tow truck driver claims self-defense in Christmas Killing

SC tow truck driver claims self-defense in Christmas Killing

This is a discussion on SC tow truck driver claims self-defense in Christmas Killing within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; BLUFFTON -- South Carolinians have long upheld a man's right to use deadly force to protect his home and property from intruders. But should a ...

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Thread: SC tow truck driver claims self-defense in Christmas Killing

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    Member Array jdf3834's Avatar
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    SC tow truck driver claims self-defense in Christmas Killing

    BLUFFTON --

    South Carolinians have long upheld a man's right to use deadly force to protect his home and property from intruders. But should a man's "castle" extend to his truck, as well?

    Read more: BLUFFTON | SC tow truck driver claims self-defense in Christmas killing | The Herald - Rock Hill, SC


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    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    There isn't much information there. But, the ballistics should easily be able to tell whether the brother is lying. But, the driver doesn't have a camera in his truck? That would be one of the first things I did when starting a towing business; trucks have video/audio recording capabilities. Admittedly the audio recording wouldn't be that useful in many cases, but it might be useful at some point. Definitely worth it in a situation like this.
    "Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"

    "Gun control means hitting your target every time."

    Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.

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    What a surprise - somebody's lying. 'Concur with RevolvingMag, that I'd have a camera running if I was in that business.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

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    Member Array jdf3834's Avatar
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    If the dead guy was holding a gun, and just happened to be turned away from the tow truck driver, that seems like a good time to get off a shot to me.

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    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdf3834 View Post
    If the dead guy was holding a gun, and just happened to be turned away from the tow truck driver, that seems like a good time to get off a shot to me.
    Definitely. If you're threatening me with a weapon and are dumb enough to turn away from me... well, chalk another one up to Darwin.
    "Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"

    "Gun control means hitting your target every time."

    Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.

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    FL law provides one the right to defend one's life anywhere one has the right to be. Cars and castles and being fired upon first are not a prerequisite.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    This seems simple to me. I know I don't have all the details but I'm inclined to believe the defendant. You have two sides of the story, one told by a guy who was there in the course of doing his job (a guy with a job is a guy with credibility). The other story is told by grieving relatives of the man who was armed when he got shot.

    Putting myself in the shooters position I can fully understand how he would have been in fear for his life when confronted by two men, one of them armed. Assuming (< that's a big if ) there is nothing more to this case, I think the guy will walk. The real loss is how much money will he have had to shell out to prove his innocence.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    From the story..
    Authorities have confirmed that Olivera was carrying a gun that night, but they said he never fired his weapon.
    Probably cause he didn't get a chance to shoot it...

    And

    Opponents counter that wide-ranging castle doctrines such as South Carolina's encourage vigilantism and create a dangerous culture of shoot-first and ask questions later, even in the face of minimal threat.

    Yeah! minimal threat "with a gun"


    If most of those folks had a clue, they'd be dangerous.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    This seems simple to me. I know I don't have all the details but I'm inclined to believe the defendant. You have two sides of the story, one told by a guy who was there in the course of doing his job (a guy with a job is a guy with credibility). The other story is told by grieving relatives of the man who was armed when he got shot.

    Putting myself in the shooters position I can fully understand how he would have been in fear for his life when confronted by two men, one of them armed. Assuming (< that's a big if ) there is nothing more to this case, I think the guy will walk. The real loss is how much money will he have had to shell out to prove his innocence.
    Well according to the news story, he's already lost his towing business. I'm inclined to believe the towing operator. He's doing his job and is approached by two men, one of them carrying a gun? He's supposed to think that they are there to wish him well and swap towing stories? Carlos Olivera may have never fired his weapon, but he was the agressor in this situation. He came to the scene to confront Preston Oates, not the other way around. Mr Oates just happened to be armed and defended himself.
    atctimmy, Spade115 and cmycek like this.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

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    Member Array jdf3834's Avatar
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    There's a show on cable TV about repo guys. When you mess with somebody's car, you often encounter some pretty pissed off people. It's a dangerous job and you'd be crazy to be in that occupation and NOT be armed. I feel sorry for him...he's been under house arrest since last December and he sounds like he simply shot a "pistol-wielding" angry man. Sorry Olivera family, but your relative should have been shot when he walked out of his home "wielding" a gun. That alone is a threat...you don't have to wait until he fires it.

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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    I have been following this case since the shooting. Van driver, in an argument with tow guy over his van being booted, brandished his legal CC pistol stuck in his waistband. Tow guy goes back to his truck, retrieves his pistol and starts firing at van guy hitting him 4 or 5 times. Up to now, IMO, tow guy can argue presumption of imminent threat (why he did not just call police--who knows). With the van guy face down on the ground, either dead or seriously wounded, the tow guy comes up to him, with his relatives standing there (at least his wife) and puts a bullet in his head as he turns to the wife and says "feliz navidad" (van guy was latino visiting his brother to drop off presents). Tow guy is no wonderful perfect citizen having had his share of problems with police. Tow guy's family seems to have some "favorable connections" with law enforcement. testimony from van guy's family have a series of conflicting statements about where the van guy's gun was all this time (gun ended up being found away from van guy's body which conflicts with van guy's brother saying the gun never left his waistband). Bottom line to me is that the conflicting testimony and really no independent more-creditable witnesses and the brandishing made the prosecutor go for manslaughter and not murder. Up until that last shot in the head I would have had trouble finding tow guy guilty of anything--with that last shot--manslaughter all the way and he is lucky it was not murder.

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    Member Array jdf3834's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    I have been following this case since the shooting. Van driver, in an argument with tow guy over his van being booted, brandished his legal CC pistol stuck in his waistband. Tow guy goes back to his truck, retrieves his pistol and starts firing at van guy hitting him 4 or 5 times. Up to now, IMO, tow guy can argue presumption of imminent threat (why he did not just call police--who knows). With the van guy face down on the ground, either dead or seriously wounded, the tow guy comes up to him, with his relatives standing there (at least his wife) and puts a bullet in his head as he turns to the wife and says "feliz navidad" (van guy was latino visiting his brother to drop off presents). Tow guy is no wonderful perfect citizen having had his share of problems with police. Tow guy's family seems to have some "favorable connections" with law enforcement. testimony from van guy's family have a series of conflicting statements about where the van guy's gun was all this time (gun ended up being found away from van guy's body which conflicts with van guy's brother saying the gun never left his waistband). Bottom line to me is that the conflicting testimony and really no independent more-creditable witnesses and the brandishing made the prosecutor go for manslaughter and not murder. Up until that last shot in the head I would have had trouble finding tow guy guilty of anything--with that last shot--manslaughter all the way and he is lucky it was not murder.
    Interesting details left out of the article linked above.

    More info I found:

    http://tow411.yuku.com/topic/96978#.TpMl-nKVri0

    http://beauforttribune.com/archives/50338

    Tow guy smirking: http://savannahnow.com/crime/2010-12...g#.TpMnPHKVri0

    http://www.blufftontoday.com/news/20...e#.TpMnqXKVri0

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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdf3834 View Post
    Interesting details left out of the article linked above.
    It does throw a different light on it, doesn't it? Bears some similarities to the shooting incident where the pharmacist went for another gun and came back to finish the robber off after he was already down. The pharmacist in Oklahoma was convicted of murder.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    If the guy shot him after he was incapacitated then he committed murder/manslaughter,it sounds to me like Tow guy decided he was gonna shoot the guy,dead guy should have never brandished his weapon,to scare the tow guy,IMHO theres a difference in immediate threat,and walking back to your truck to retrieve a gun to shoot somebody,this woulda been a good case to call 911,and the $300 to boot a car is Robbery in it's own right,I'd be mad as hell too if I was legally parked,but a tow driver felt I wasn't parked according to a homeowners code I had never seen
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    With the van guy face down on the ground, either dead or seriously wounded, the tow guy comes up to him, with his relatives standing there (at least his wife) and puts a bullet in his head as he turns to the wife and says "feliz navidad"
    If this is true it would be hard for me to accept self-defense.

    Michael

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