This is a discussion on After Hours within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You are the last person out of a business (theater, restuarant,etc.) at the end of the day, and they lock up and head into the ...
August 10th, 2006 10:42 PM
You are the last person out of a business (theater, restuarant,etc.) at the end of the day, and they lock up and head into the back after you're out the door.
As you came out. you saw a group of youths about 10 feet away that started hassling you, and talking loudly about robbing you and "bustin' a cap in his (your) a$$."
They start moving in your direction, and you hear a pistol chambering a round. What do you do?
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August 10th, 2006 11:14 PM
No cover. "Tight" group of possible perps. Belligerence + stated intentions of actual murder. Apparent racking of a pistol's slide. Bad situation with one direction of flow.
With the details provided, IMO the time for half-measures in the situation has just passed. It's time to shift gears and eliminate the threat immediately, else one would likely be killed. I'd hope to begin heading toward cover immediately after having zeroed in on the "primary" target, but that's a thin hope in an empty parking lot. Backing up and rounding the building, then, I suppose.
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self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
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August 10th, 2006 11:31 PM
I had to do this 5 nights a week while I was slingin coffee @ Starbucks. All stores have a peep-hole. I don't know about other random companies, though.
Considering a lot of companies will not let you carry... Man, you just walk the other direction and ignore them. Should you be fortunate enough ot have a carry piece, I would clear leather on this one and back away. Pretty much just tell them to stop where they are and to "Not move a #^@%ing muscle." Any quick movement and I think you can guess. Gang assualt? I don't think there is a prosecuter in the country that would charge you.
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August 10th, 2006 11:34 PM
One thing that isn’t mentioned very often is "arming yourself".
Now to me, that's not pulling out a gun and aiming it at anyone, it's simply getting you gun out of its holster and in your hand(s), most likely pointed down and may or may not be seen by your threat.
In this scenario, that would be my first instinct as I sought cover, or admittance to another open establishment. Maybe I could just keep moving and keep a distance between myself and them.
At this point it would depend on what the "boys" did as to what I'd do next. Given time I'd call 911. If anyone else was on the sidewalk I might yell to them that these kids are trying to rob me and to call 911, they have guns!
This sounds like a “play it as you see it go down” scenario!
I’ll be interested to see others responses.
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August 11th, 2006 01:16 AM
Get hardware in hand if possible maintain distance in the direction of cover, encourage them to keep back and wait for their next move. Weapon appears respond with required level of force needed to stop the threat.
August 11th, 2006 02:36 AM
You guys say this. My wife works a Chilli's. She usually doesn't close and the restaurant is well lit, but I sure wish she carried a gun. She could easily fit a P3AT in her smock/apron thing and no one would be the wiser. I've gotta talk to her about this. I've never mentioned to her about getting a CCW, but I'd be at ease if she did.
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August 11th, 2006 08:25 AM
Well, this would be one of the situations I carry my .380 Bersa in my vest for; reach for a cigarette, getting the BUG out instead, sidestep right, turn left to Weaver stance, identify the armed targets, and shoot to slidelock while retreating. The situation dynamics will determine whether to grab a spare mag for the BUG or "New York Reload" to the larger caliber primary at that point.
Originally Posted by 45ACP4ever
Realistically, it's probably not going to be that smooth, but I do practice the fighting retreat, (that's *running* backwards, like I bet I'm really gonna be doing when somebody's trying to kill me) as I figure my chances of not losing increase exponentially with every yard of separation I can gain.
August 11th, 2006 12:22 PM
You're going to get shot. Either do some serious E&E, or draw, make that split second eval, and most likely fire. This is typical GB "newbie" initiation set-up, lots of mouth to build up steam.
Originally Posted by 45ACP4ever
August 11th, 2006 03:10 PM
agree with rob sounds like an initiation to me i draw search for cover but never take my eyes off them and hope wwhen they come out shooting they hold the gun sideways like in the movies so ill have a fighting chance with a calm well placed shot if there ten feet away as you post says then id say get yours out fast and take aim at the one with a gun while retreating to get some fighting room if i seen the one with the gun im afraid id take him out since he has already let me know his intentions so i would have a reasonable fear of life ect...
August 11th, 2006 07:18 PM
Yeah, with the verbals, and seeing/hearing a gun .... the guy with the gun is going to get hit first, and now. I'll agree that "You're going to get shot AT" ... but I like my chances as long as I've got plenty of ammo. My point is, I really doubt those guys can shoot. They may get lucky, but at this point, things are so bad I don't see a way out except to fight. You turn and run, you ain't gonna out run 'em. Maybe if you could put the corner of the building between them and you, and find a car for barricade, you may be able to do a bit more damage as they pop around the corner and take out a couple more. That would probably take the fight right out of them, plus now you may be on the street side and folks will be more likely to see/hear what's going down. Another thought provoker .. good post.
August 11th, 2006 07:34 PM
very simple here, run and take cover behind the first car you find. And check out the situation out, hand on weapon.
Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....
August 12th, 2006 10:21 AM
if theyre only 10 feet away, then youre screwed...
this distance can be closed in less than a second...
hard to assess, draw, front sight and shoot in that amount of time...
park car in front of the door before closing time and never leave alone...
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August 12th, 2006 12:16 PM
You touched on an excellent point ... preparation.
Originally Posted by dimmak
You KNOW you're going to be getting off at 0-dark-thirty.
I assume you know that gangs are in the area or youngsters looking for trouble tend to hang out in the parking lot.
You're probably aware of what's likely an elevated crime rate in the area.
There's lots of little things you could do to minimize the risk:
1) After the parking lot begins to clear, you and a couple of co-workers, together, go out and move your cars to the front of the store (or what ever door you go out).
2) Go out together or at the very least, have someone wait by the door until you're in your car and moving
3) Get a panic/burglar alarm on your car ... a press of a button will raise all kinds of noise.
Add 4-10 yourself as there are lots of options .. but, first and foremost, try to have a weapon with you in case 1-10 fail.
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