Child At Your Door In The Middle Of The Night
This is a discussion on Child At Your Door In The Middle Of The Night within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live in a somewhat rural area. Most houses are on 8- 10 acres. Police response time would vary from 10 to maybe 15 minutes. ...
October 20th, 2011 09:57 PM
I live in a somewhat rural area. Most houses are on 8- 10 acres. Police response time would vary from 10 to maybe 15 minutes. I know most of my neighbors in varying degrees.
After securing the child and calling 911 I would leave the very capable wife and the mastiff to guard the fort while I would (right or wrong) go give what ever assistance was needed.
I could not allow innocents to be harmed. Must be the way I was raised and the way I live.
One more thing. Wake me up at 3 o'clock in the morning? I'm gonna be cranky...
October 20th, 2011 10:15 PM
I have to say I am troubled by all the responses that say stay in your own house and protect your family and the child. This is a 7-9 year old, not a 4 year old, I would tend to believe the child and what he/she saw. Sounds like one guy with a knife hurting or killing the child's family. I would not hesitate to help in any way I could. That would include getting the pepper spray and the 9mm and heading over to see what is going on. I would tell my family to lock the doors and call 911 first obviously. I would not try to be a hero and go charging in there but would at least go over, listen, yell, see if I could tell what was happening and then adjust my response from there. For crying out loud, you may see your neighbor being stabbed to death by a masked man and shoot him and be a hero. Or it may be over and you get a license plate or description of the bad guy. I would expect my neighbors to do the same thing. I don't think I could live with myself otherwise. It is too easy to say, oh, they should have been more prepared, let them fend for themselves. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
October 20th, 2011 11:04 PM
I am in the country...I know my neighbors very well... they know me...if a neighbors child came to me reporting this I would call my sheriff....he's in my cell phone.... response time would probably be 20 or so minutes... Since I am single I would tell the child to stay in my house & lock the child in....then I would arm up & go help my neighbor....they would do the same for me....
October 20th, 2011 11:12 PM
I don't consider ensuring the safety of my wife and the child and notifying LE doing nothing.
If the wife was out of town, that's a different matter.
It may be one susp, it may be more and the child only saw one.
"I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".
October 20th, 2011 11:24 PM
The problem in rural areas is the elapsed time...
The elapsed time from when the child left the house under attack, the elapsed time for us to respond to the child, the elapsed time getting to the other house and surveying the situation (while 911 has been called and is being dealt with by wife with child safely at our home), the elapsing time while waiting for LEO to arrive.
With neighbors a quarter mile away, if it was them, you've got, easily five and more like 10 minutes in elapsed time prior to your getting on scene... it could all be over by the time you got there... no matter what.
You may not be able to see into the house to determine what is going on, it could all be happening on the second level. Unless you are very well acquainted with the neighbors and all the rooms of their house (unlikely in a rural area, more likely in cookie cutter developments), how do you gain entry to "do" anything? Where do you go once in? What if you hear nothing from outside?
Are you going into the neighbor's house and "clearing" it? It most often isn't wise for you to "clear" your own house with which you are intimately familiar.
If you wait outside for LEO, are you gonna shoot the first man out the door? Back lit? Is that your neighbor or the bad guy?
Sure, I'd go over in an IDEAL situation, and block egress for someone in a vehicle, if that is feasible... And I wouldn't be any where near the blocking vehicle... but where I could observe (and perhaps report to LEO on his arrival (gee I hope he doesn't think I'm the bad guy!) But then, what if my neighbor's truck comes barreling down the drive and I see a man shillouetted in it... I can't shoot, what if it's the neighbor with his dying wife on the seat next to him? and he's trying to get her to the hospital (quicker than waiting for an ambulance), after overpowering/killing the BG?
"Charging in" is fraught with far too many variables to be of much use...
No one here is suggesting that they would do nothing... but in reality, the best odds are to protect the surviving child first, one's own family second, and finally, maybe... trying to do something proactive... only if the first two conditions can be met.
Adding that 911 was called the minute the child made cohesive statements... which might be another elapsed time quotient.
Last edited by oakchas; October 20th, 2011 at 11:31 PM.
Reason: adding the 911 call
It could be worse!
October 21st, 2011 12:03 AM
I normally just read these scenarios without posting, but this one caught my eye. I like watching the show I Survived, there have been a few episodes where there was a home invasion with a guy attacking with a knife. Its amazing listening to their stories how they survived after being stabbed 40 or 50 times in an attack that lasted 10-30 minutes or longer but some of their family did not make it. Cant help but wonder what would have changed if one of their neighbors that heard came to their aid.
I live in a semi rural area, takes me 6 minutes to get to one town, 10 to get to another, sheriffs response always takes 20-30 minutes the few times we have called them. Our small area we tend to look out for each other, one time we had most of the neighborhood out to our house when we had trespassers(long story) and I would do the same for them. At the end of the rd, 1/2 mile away, there is a single mom with 2 kids in the 7-10 range. Small house, 1 floor. They would have to go pass 4 other house to get to us. If one of the kids made it to us, which means the other kid is in the house with the mom, first thing is bring him/her in and call 911. Next thing would probably be me and my dad going to the house with my brother staying here with my mom and the kid. Hopefully we would be able to stop the attack from getting worse, or get an id on the attacker, or render first aid to the mom and other child as both of us have a fair amount of first aid training. We would not charge in, that would be stupid, but do a quick observation through windows or open doors, make a quick assessment and then if hear struggling or calls for help take our time moving in. If we saw a clear visible threat we would deal with it and then take care of the mom and child.
By the time we dial 911 and the time they arrive, its over, they are just taking a report. It might be that by the time we get there they are already dead and the attacker is long gone, but I would never know if I did not gone up there. And I am the type of person who would never forgive myself if I stood by knowing that there was at least a small chance I could have done something to change the outcome. I would not help to be a hero or to get attention or 5 minutes of fame, but because I would be sick to my stomach the rest of my life if I just did nothing, and I can not live like that.
October 21st, 2011 12:11 AM
Tell the person in the house to call 911, while grabbing the shotgun, put a .357 behind the back waistband, head over there and see what's going on.
Cops will be on the way.
Approach the house and listen carefully.
"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."
October 21st, 2011 09:29 AM
Interesting discussion in this one.
We live in a semi-rural town. While our neighbors are close there is no local PD and response time is, on average, 28 minutes (per the Sheriff's website).
One has to assume that, unless the BG did not know there was a child on the premise and that the child had escaped or unless he actually WANTS to get caught or commit suicide by cop, he knows his time in limited now that a child has escaped and he needs to conclude his business quickly and get out as authorities are going to be on their way.
Thinking over this scenario I must say the motherly instincts in me would prevail. It is getting VERY cold here. Between midnight and three this morning it was in the 20s. A child showing up on our doorstep in nothing but pajamas is going to be freezing.. quite literally. I'm not going to force him or her to stand on the porch. Not to mention if what he or she saw was particularly traumatizing or if there are any injuries the child could go into shock. I would first assess to see if the child needed medical care, then wrap him or her in a warm blanket and plop them on my couch or living room floor and relay what they told me to authorities. As mentioned, a 7-9 year old is a little more capable of relaying information accurately. No, he or she might not have all of the information but it's going to be more coherent than a younger child's reporting.
I'm going to set aside the fact that I'm very pregnant which would immediately keep me from trying to go anywhere. My body is not in any kind of condition to go sneaking through backyards in my underoos with a gun in my hand. If I could see the house in question from my own home I would look for vehicles I don't know and try to be a good witness and report what I saw to authorities.
If by myself I would probably start phoning everyone in the neighborhood. At very least I could get at least three or four neighbors looking out their windows for vehicle description, plate numbers, etc.
I know my husband well enough to know he would not sit still in the house. He trusts my capabilities to defend myself and our children and would likely leave me in the house with the kids to at least go assess the situation and get a better view. There would be no way I could stop him nor would I try because it would be futile. But, I do trust him enough to know he would not do anything reckless. He would assess, observe and only if he had no choice, was sure of the situation and what was going on would he try to engage.
There are a couple of things I think would be prudent in preparation for this kind of scenario (or any scenario involving the neighbors, including fires, break-ins, natural disasters, or any scenario that would force you to even consider leaving your house in the middle of the night).
1. Have a midnight go bag.
A lot of people do not sleep in much clothing and finding all of your gear in the middle of the night can take precious time. Not to mention that most people who are awoken in the middle of the night in a state of deep sleep take at least 20-30 minutes to be operating at full mental capacity and will likely forget a piece of gear they might need. A midnight go bag could be a fanny pack (so it can clip around the waist of a scantly clad individual) and include a pre-paid cell phone (so you don't have to worry about putting your cell phone in the bag every night). A spare gun and magazine (or just remember to put your carry gun in it every night before bed), a flashlight, spare car and/or house keys (though I would hesitate to put house keys in there just in case), pen and paper, knife, spare glasses (if you wear glasses) and anything else you might think you could need if roused in the middle of the night.
Having some clothes near hand and a good pair of slip on shoes by the door aren't too bad of ideas either.
Even if you never leave your house, you would have everything on your waist to immediately report, respond and take notes of events transpiring.
2. Know your neighbors.
We have four immediate neighbors and are on good conversational terms with all of them. I have the phone numbers for two of them and could easily look up the other two in the phone book and I know that calling one of our neighbors is pretty much as good as calling a local phone book. I could get the word out about a threat in the neighborhood in about 30 seconds. At very least it could keep a BG from being able to run to another neighbors' homes and claiming more victims by making those neighbors aware and more prepared to defend themselves.
October 21st, 2011 10:58 AM
Since we have an 8 yr old this fits well into to realm of possibilities.
Bring child inside home, get as much information as possible from them while wife is calling 911. I am getting dressed, getting shoes, belt, flashlight and gun/magazines. I have a routine every evening where stuff goes when it comes off, so it is there to put right back on.
If our kids have played together, and I have been over or had them over for a BBQ, I can't really imagine waiting till the morning and reading about it in the paper. After I exit the house, wife would lock door behind me and turn the tv to monitor the cameras that display all the entrances ect to your home and get her pistol. She is a big girl and can stop someone who would be trying to enter the home. Wife would be instructed to start calling folks on the neighborhood watch list, to alert them of what is going on.
While I was on my way over to the other home, I would also call 911 and give them any information I can about what I see, hear ect., phone would go into shirt pocket and left on when I was close enough that I needed both hands available to me. Whether or how I entered the home would depend greatly on what I heard or saw when I got to the home. If there are blood curdling screaming that could be heard and someone was pleading for their life, I am probably going in. If all is quiet, I might be more hesitant and wait for cops or the BG to exit the home, or neighbors who have now been woken up to show up.
Might not be the smartest thing to do, but hey, sometimes you just got to do what you feel is right and see how things play out.
Last edited by farronwolf; October 21st, 2011 at 02:06 PM.
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October 21st, 2011 10:58 AM
Lima, it was actually with you and your husband in mind that I posted as I did my comment about I'd go on over because I'm an old goat but a young man with family should stay put.
This is one tough moral and ethical dilemma you posed, and I come down squarely on JD NOT going on over. You, Garrett and the coming baby need him.
Now, if you could rouse another male neighbor or two to quickly join up, maybe that would be different.
JD is not invincible. Nor is he expendable.
If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
October 21st, 2011 11:12 AM
Well said, completely agree
Originally Posted by Thunder71
October 21st, 2011 11:37 AM
Bust out the ghillie suit an start sniping.
I don't know what I would do couldn't tell ya until the situation actually happened.
October 21st, 2011 11:42 AM
Lima, I'd like to hear what JD says he would do in such a scenario.
I do like the idea of calling other neighbors to put them on alert...
For those of us who would rush over and render aid, peek in the windows, listen for whatever... Just as you arrive... this is what you see in the doorway:
Shoot or not?
Call out the neighbor's name... "Hey Mike? That you?
The only response you get is his head raises a bit, maybe his head turns more towards, you a little...
If it's neighbor Mike, or the BG, you still don't know...
If it's Mike, maybe he's (make that: probably he's) in the throes of an adrenaline dump and in shock too and can't hear you well.
If it's the BG, maybe he's in euphoria after killing Mike, the wife, and the other kids.
I know, you'll all shine your gazillion lumen tac lights in his face and you'll know who he is...
BTW, you're starting to feel the effects of adrenaline now as well... as well as some exertion from traipsing up there all tactical like... your vision is narrowing, your hearing is fading... and you maybe don't hear the accomplice coming up behind you ...
is that a LEO?
You look down and see the pointy end of a knife coming out the center of your chest...
How'd that get therrrrr.....?
Go ahead, Tell me I'm wrong...
It could be worse!
October 21st, 2011 11:45 AM
I like AZChevy's idea on sending my dogs in I hadn't thought of that. Thats what I'd do in my home is send them in why not at the neighbors. The dogs would find where the perps are and also let the neighbors know help is there and to be ready for anything. Great Idea Chev thats the winner for me.
October 21st, 2011 12:01 PM
The child would stay with my wife and dogs. The wife is armed and quite proficient with a pistol and my two american bulldogs adore children. The child couldn't be safer, I would almost feel sorry for an intruder ....
Meanwhile, I would head over to the child's house to sort things out. I'm no hero but I couldn't look myself in the eye if I didn't try to help my neighbors if they were in danger. My youngest daughter (she is military EOD) has a tattoo that says "All that is needed for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
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