Child At Your Door In The Middle Of The Night

This is a discussion on Child At Your Door In The Middle Of The Night within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by kelcarry Hey Guys: We are not the police. We present a firearm when their is a presumption of imminent threat of death ...

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Thread: Child At Your Door In The Middle Of The Night

  1. #76
    Member Array sd976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey Guys: We are not the police. We present a firearm when their is a presumption of imminent threat of death or bodily injury to us and our family. In SC, we do have an alter ego rule, which allows us to act on behalf of others who we presume are in imminent danger as if it were us. It is a rule that has many flaws and many ways that things can go horribly wrong. Being sure of what a child is telling us is not not being sure of anything. As others have said, your obligation is to yourself and your family. If you act and come across a situation that harms or kills you--your obligation to yourself and your family has been terribly violated. If you act and are terribly mistaken in what you presume, your obligation to yourself and your family has again been terribly violated. If you should be living in a rural area, where police presence is many minutes if not hours away--maybe you act--but I would think you had better be well-trained--even then you are NOT an LEO and truly have no authority.

    Some of us are, Kel.

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  3. #77
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    Array 1 old 0311's Avatar
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    Call 911 and sit tight. I ain't a LEO, with backup, OR a SWAT team.

  4. #78
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sd976 View Post
    Some of us are, Kel.
    For those who ARE currently... Recommendations for John Q.?

    urban, suburban, rural... please chime in...

    1. What would be official action based on 911 calls as outlined...
    2. What would you do (differently or not) if John Q. was out there trying to check on the neighbors..?
    3. Waiting for backup?
    4. Arriving as a team?



    It'd be interesting to try to learn if we (John Q., et al) would be percieved as help, hinderance, what?
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  5. #79
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    You're sleeping peacefully in your bed. It's between midnight and 3am when you hear frantic knocking at your door or doorbell ringing, etc.

    You do whatever it is you do to go to the door to identify the individual and find a 7-9 y/o neighbor child in his/her pajamas desperately pleading for help.

    You recognize the child from the neighborhood and are decently good terms with the parents. Perhaps you aren't great friends but there is no bad blood between you either. You may have exchanged pleasantries while out in the yard or even helped out with some tools or yard projects or gone over for a back yard barbeque or two. If you have kids that age you've allowed the children to play together in the yard. For the purposes of this scenario let's say you have never been inside of the home, however.

    When asked what's wrong the child says that someone is in his/her house with a knife and hurting the rest of the family. Only s/he was able to escape to find help.

    Of course you call 911 but then what do you do?

    For those in rural areas with exceptionally long response times, does that affect your decision making at all?
    Dam you, you finally came up with a scenario requiring action on my part.

    In answer, call 911, get my body armor, a pocket trauma kit and a TQ, get dressed and go say HI...

  6. #80
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    You're sleeping peacefully in your bed. It's between midnight and 3am when you hear frantic knocking at your door or doorbell ringing, etc.

    You do whatever it is you do to go to the door to identify the individual and find a 7-9 y/o neighbor child in his/her pajamas desperately pleading for help.

    You recognize the child from the neighborhood and are decently good terms with the parents. Perhaps you aren't great friends but there is no bad blood between you either. You may have exchanged pleasantries while out in the yard or even helped out with some tools or yard projects or gone over for a back yard barbeque or two. If you have kids that age you've allowed the children to play together in the yard. For the purposes of this scenario let's say you have never been inside of the home, however.

    When asked what's wrong the child says that someone is in his/her house with a knife and hurting the rest of the family. Only s/he was able to escape to find help.

    Of course you call 911 but then what do you do?

    For those in rural areas with exceptionally long response times, does that affect your decision making at all?
    Somewhere around 15-16yrs ago (I really can't remember), we lived on the same "large" property as two elderly widows. We ran a horse training/riding facility & helped care for the place.

    One night around 2am, the owner called me because someone was breaking into her home. There was no 911 service and DS was at least & hour in most cases. I didn't think twice about jumping in my truck & heading over to her house & confronting the BG. (It turned out the guy was someone that the widow's husband had allowed to do a few odd jobs on the place in the past.)

    I caught him just about to climb through a broken window. When I yelled at him to stop, he turned & began approaching me & raising a crowbar as he got closer. That's when I took cover behind my truck & took aim COM. Fortunately, he stopped after I mustered up my inner/former LEO command voice & gave him the command to drop the weapon.

    I got him under control & secured the situation. We waited another TWO hours; but DS never showed up to answer the call. (The only "TWO" deputies one duty were over & hour away tied up on a call.)

    I ended up driving the guy well away & farther into the country & dropped him off next to an abandoned house so he could sleep things off. (There were no other homes in the area to worry about and I told the SD what I was doing & where they could find him.)

    I would have taken him to the county lockup myself. But, I just didn't want the hassle & liability that comes with a citizens arrest. (Neither did the widow) I also thought about taking him to the homeless shelter; except he was under the influence of alcohol & drugs; BAD.

    -
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  7. #81
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    For those who choose to take the offensive. I assume you are ready to accept the dangers you will put yourself in by taking action. What about the financial dangers to your family and possible loss of freedom for yourself if the government decides you made a wrong choice?

    Michael

  8. #82
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    For those who choose to take the offensive. I assume you are ready to accept the dangers you will put yourself in by taking action. What about the financial dangers to your family and possible loss of freedom for yourself if the government decides you made a wrong choice?

    Michael
    I am glad I don't live in a place where that is very likely to happen. If it did end up that way, well then I would deal with it.

    When you get into your car every day, you assume a similar risk in my opinion. Folks don't think twice about that do they?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  9. #83
    Member Array Deuce130's Avatar
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    I would hope someone would try and save my wife and daughters. In turn, I'd do the same for them. I'm not a cop (though if I was, I think I'd be obligated to go over there) but I am a human being. To each his own.

  10. #84
    Senior Member Array GreyGhost's Avatar
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    This one really make me do some soul searching. Of course the "right" answer is to protect your family and the child. Which I would definitely do. My wife is capable of handling the shottie and the dogs will already be awake and agitated. 911 has been called. So I know I just can't sit there and wait. I'm gonna have to do something.

    I keep a set of clothes complete with holster laid out on the desk in the bedroom for emergency use. I can be dressed and ready to move in less than a minute. The gun and spare mag are on the nightstand.

    I'm fortunate enough to have numerous neighbors that are in law enforcement. State police, County Sheriffs, and local PD. I'm going to be waking up a lot of people! Now I'm really hoping one or all are home because these folks need help. And I sure as hell don't want to be a hero. But if all else fails I won't be able to stand idly by while bad things happen. I will do what I can. Sometimes you gotta do what's right and not what's safe.
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  11. #85
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    I live out in the country, mostly on 2-5 acre lots. Police response isn't bad, should have something here in 5 minutes or less.

    The kid and the wife hole up in the bedroom. She can protect them if someone comes after the kid.

    I'm on the phone with 911 and heading out the door with my scoped rifle. I set up with a view down the neighbor's driveway and observe/report. Once the cops show up, I turn over to them. I'm on the phone the whole time so they know I'm out there.

    Why do I do this? Well, with a good scoped rifle IF I can see someone in danger that warrants lethal force, I can deliver it. I can also cover an escape out the door and prevent the BG from leaving with anyone- or leaving period.

    I don't have to cover for long, and I'm not clearing a house on my own. When a man with a knife meets a man with a rifle, the man with the knife had better give up.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  12. #86
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnK87 View Post
    I live out in the country, mostly on 2-5 acre lots. Police response isn't bad, should have something here in 5 minutes or less.

    The kid and the wife hole up in the bedroom. She can protect them if someone comes after the kid.

    I'm on the phone with 911 and heading out the door with my scoped rifle. I set up with a view down the neighbor's driveway and observe/report. Once the cops show up, I turn over to them. I'm on the phone the whole time so they know I'm out there.

    Why do I do this? Well, with a good scoped rifle IF I can see someone in danger that warrants lethal force, I can deliver it. I can also cover an escape out the door and prevent the BG from leaving with anyone- or leaving period.

    I don't have to cover for long, and I'm not clearing a house on my own. When a man with a knife meets a man with a rifle, the man with the knife had better give up.
    Night vision scope? The scenario occurs at like, 2 am. might be enough ambient light from the house and yard light if they put em up where you live.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  13. #87
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    If the lights are on inside the house, you have enough. Illuminated reticle, 30 rd mag, good to go.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  14. #88
    Member Array Bkrazy's Avatar
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    A similar incident happened to me about a year ago. In this case I was at a buddies house for dinner (stayed later playing board games) and around 2330 his neighbors wife arrived hysterical and covered in blood. Without hesitation my buddy and I headed over to his neighbors house to investigate. We left our wives as well as our children (both armed; I love southern girls). The immediate threat was that the husband could have been abusing the child. The wife came without her kid. Our wives called 911 and let them know we were headed over to the house to see what was going on. I will say we have the training to enter and clear buildings and we were both armed. We entered the house to find the husband had committed suicide and my buddy took the child from his room and returned him to his mother. We then waited for the Local Police to show up and cooperated to our fullest.
    Home alone with just the wife? Seeing as I am currently in Germany I will definitely be staying at the house. No firearms and no right to defend yourself. I unfortunately will not go down that road. Back in the states? I will probably be heading over. My children are old enough to wield their own weapons and the wife is more than capable. It is all situational though. If the child states there may be more than one intruder, I am not going. If the child is unclear or cannot answer simple questions I may have, I might not go.
    My initial reaction is to go help, but the gut has a way to tell you if the situation is OK. I hope no one ever has to experience this.
    Please take my posts with a grain of salt. I am frequently sleep deprived and always just on this side of "Krazy".

    When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. Edmund Burke

  15. #89
    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    Yes my dogs are on good terms with the neighbors and we have all bee inside eachothers houses. If my neighbor saw my dog inside his house he is going to know I'm near and that the cops have been called. It then becomes a waiting game of how violent the intruders are going to become. If they aren't harming the neighbors I'll watch and wait for the police. If they get violent I intervene. I'm friends with all my neighbors (which aren't many) and would not sit idle letting them get hurt or worse. It may be me next and I might need their help. I know I know my never failing SA would never allow it to happen to me.


    Response time out here at a minimum would be twenty minutes. It would take me a couple minutes to get to the neighbors and no telling how long the neighbors kid took to get here even if they can run a 5 minute mile.

  16. #90
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    For those who choose to take the offensive. I assume you are ready to accept the dangers you will put yourself in by taking action. What about the financial dangers to your family and possible loss of freedom for yourself if the government decides you made a wrong choice?

    Michael
    In MI we can defend others. So I would accept that part. As far as other children in the home, and the possibility of them being carved up, I will try with all that is in me to make sure that doesnt happen. To hell with laws at that point. Those kids are not dieing without someone trying to help. If I fail, I tried, If I succeed, I will deal with the aftermath. This is one of those scenarios that calls for a "Man UP moment" in my mind.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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