Armed Mpls. citizen who said he killed robber attacking woman released

This is a discussion on Armed Mpls. citizen who said he killed robber attacking woman released within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Details are still thin but thought I would put this up for critique and comment by the board. Article by: , Star Tribune Updated: October ...

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Thread: Armed Mpls. citizen who said he killed robber attacking woman released

  1. #1
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
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    Armed Mpls. citizen who said he killed robber attacking woman released

    Details are still thin but thought I would put this up for critique and comment by the board.

    Article by: , Star Tribune

    Updated: October 21, 2011 - 3:13 PM

    A man is telling police that he interrupted an armed and violent robbery of a woman near a grocery store in south Minneapolis, chased down the 23-year-old suspect and fatally shot him behind a nearby restaurant during a confrontation.

    The shooting occurred about 9:45 p.m. Thursday in the 2800 block of 26th Avenue S., police said Friday. Authorities have yet to release the identities of all those involved.

    The shooter, who told officers that he has a permit to carry a firearm, was detained by police for questioning and then released, Sgt. William Palmer late Friday morning.

    "My understanding is that the [shooter] does" indeed have the proper gun permit, Palmer said. "I'm sure the investigators will check that."

    Given that a death is involved, Palmer said he expects that a grand jury will review the circumstances and rule on whether a crime may have been committed.

    When it comes to armed citizens intervening in unfolding crimes, the sergeant said "that's really a personal decision."

    At the time citizens get their permit to carry a gun, "they are told what the limits are, what their liabilities are and what their authority is or is not.

    "They need to evaluate the situation like [police] would," he added. "The permit is designed for self-defense."

    According to police:

    A caller to 911 said a woman had just been robbed at gunpoint of her purse and pistol-whipped in the head in the parking lot of the Cub Foods in the 2800 block of 26th Avenue S.

    Information from a second 911 call indicated that a man had been shot behind the Super Grand Buffett in the same block. Officers and emergency medical personnel responded and found the mortally wounded man.

    Officers were approached by another man outside the grocery store who said he witnessed the robbery and assault, chased the suspect to behind the restaurant and shot him during a confrontation. The man then directed officers to the weapon.

    The robbery victim, 53, suffered a cut to the head in an injury that police described as not serious.

    Officers located another handgun believed to belong to the suspect near where the shooting occurred.

    Andrew Rothman, a Twin Cities firearms trainer and vice president of the Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, said Friday afternoon that if the events unfolded as the armed citizen described, "the permit holder acted appropriately. Chasing the mugger to recover the purse or to effect a citizen's arrest is permitted by law."

    And, Rothman continued, if the suspect "then escalated by pointing and/or shooting at the good Samaritan, the good Samaritan would have been completely justified in shooting."

    Police are asking that anyone with information to call investigators 612-692-TIPS (8477).
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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    Already a thread in progress.

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    Based on what was presented so far...I believe he gets a pass.
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; October 22nd, 2011 at 10:31 AM.
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    For reference, here is the other thread.

    Robbery Suspect Fatally Shot by MN Carry Permit Holder
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    "chased down the 23-year-old suspect and fatally shot him behind a nearby restaurant during a confrontation."

    Intervening in the robbery/assault...yes. Chasing the perp? That is the point in which he overstepped his responsibilities.
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    He may have overstepped his responsibilities, but not the law.
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    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    He may have overstepped his responsibilities, but not the law.
    Agree ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ As FL Dose'nt have citizens arrest ; )
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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    "chased down the 23-year-old suspect and fatally shot him behind a nearby restaurant during a confrontation."

    Intervening in the robbery/assault...yes. Chasing the perp? That is the point in which he overstepped his responsibilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    He may have overstepped his responsibilities, but not the law.
    What responsibility was involved? Comes down to a responsibility to act as your conscience dictates.
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    I hope he is not charged. As I said in the other thread, any man who attacks a woman this way will sooner or later kill someone. He chose the wrong place and time, and it cost him his life. I don't celebrate anyone's death, but sometimes they have it coming.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    Agree ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ As FL Dose'nt have citizens arrest ; )
    H/D
    Whether by statute or not it would seem that it is recognized in Florida.

    Article - Citizen's Arrest
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Member Array Penhall's Avatar
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    I think it will come down to "when" the gun was pulled. If he chased the suspect to recover the purse and only drew his weapon after the BG stopped and threatened him in some way, then he should be good. If he pulled his gun and THEN chased down the BG, then things get a little dicey, IMO. Either way, I think he was morally correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Penhall View Post
    I think it will come down to "when" the gun was pulled. If he chased the suspect to recover the purse and only drew his weapon after the BG stopped and threatened him in some way, then he should be good. If he pulled his gun and THEN chased down the BG, then things get a little dicey, IMO. Either way, I think he was morally correct.
    When he pistol-whipped the woman, it was on.

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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Prayers to this guy in hopes that everything works out. It can't be easy having to put someone down whether it's your job, your duty, or your calling.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    Member Array Oldfart60's Avatar
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    Hope for the best for the shooter. However, it gives more ammunition to the anti-carry people because now they can try to portray us as vigilantes. If he had shot the assailant at/during the assault, okay – but chasing him after the fact really falls onto the police. My carry instructor talked about this and would give this a big no. That said, I hope he doesn't get charged with anything.

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