Your Brothers Keeper

This is a discussion on Your Brothers Keeper within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In FL It would be called a (Baker Act)= Having him involanary comitted, Granted parents would sign pappers along with yourself ; ) H/D...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    In FL It would be called a (Baker Act)= Having him involanary comitted, Granted parents would sign pappers along with yourself ; )
    H/D
    A Native Floridian = RARE


    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Granted, I do not know the inner workings of police business but don't need a paper trail of behavior and a police report of the incidents in question in order to prove an individual is unstable enough to be committed against his/her will?

    Evidence to present to a judge and/or doctor to have them committed and adjudicated mentally defective, etc.

    At very least can't they investigate the validity of the claim that the individual has an illegally obtained firearm?

    There are adult social services but getting someone committed again his/her will is not too easy without some proof of instability.

    If the brother has previous, documented mental health issues it would probably help but as for the violence I think that would be a police issue, no?
    For the violence, yes, that is a police issue in the immediate. But, long term... no. Police do not and should not take reports about peoples mental health. That is a way to far slippery slope. Unfortunately, its the slope we are rapidly descending. If a crime is committed as a symptom of a mental illness, a report should be made about the crime; let mental health professionals make the call on the illness.

    Baker act... yeah, it exists. But you have to prove that the person is a danger to himself or others. Relying on the word of others is an awesome way to open yourself and agency to a much deserved lawsuit.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandBob View Post
    If he were my brother, I'd kick his tail so far up his butt that he would have to do a handstand to take a dump.
    Old school advice is often the best. I would definitely take the time to convince him of the error of his ways, make sure he understands that he is to stay away from family, and provide various forms of negative reinforcement whenever he forgets and shows up by accident.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    For the violence, yes, that is a police issue in the immediate. But, long term... no. Police do not and should not take reports about peoples mental health. That is a way to far slippery slope. Unfortunately, its the slope we are rapidly descending. If a crime is committed as a symptom of a mental illness, a report should be made about the crime; let mental health professionals make the call on the illness.

    Baker act... yeah, it exists. But you have to prove that the person is a danger to himself or others. Relying on the word of others is an awesome way to open yourself and agency to a much deserved lawsuit.
    Oh, yes, I understand that police do not have mental health records. I did not mean that.. I meant just the criminal stuff and was adding that if he HAD mental health issues in the past that were documented BY A DOCTOR then it would help with any kind of legal action required to get him committed if that was the desire.

    I understand that the police will only have record of CRIMINAL activities but assault is certainly a criminal act and, as stated, the incident could at least be another documented case to add to the pile to get legal action against he brother.

    I do understand that in the long term the police would have no power... that is unless he does snap and end up killing his parents, brother, others.. then police would certainly end up involved again.

    I also agree that the brother can't do anything about the assault of the father or the suicide threat because that's all hear-say. If any actions are going to be made about that incident they have to be made by the people involved... the mother and father. The brother is powerless to get the police involved in that matter.

    True that the brother has no legal recourse based solely on the scenario above. Best case for the brother is to get the parents to step up and do the right thing and start documenting any run-ins and not let any future stuff go unchecked.

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array GunGeezer's Avatar
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    Call the police. Get something official like a no contact or order of protection against him. Let him know that this is for his own good and he needs to get help for his drug addiction or mental problems or both. Under no circumstances give him ultimatums or become confrontational. He could have a death wish. Always be prepared!

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    OK, I'll bite...what are the police going to do?
    your brother assaulted your father, held his illegally obtained .40
    I think they could arrest him for assault for starters. Then they could add a weapons charge too. Maybe I'm missing something here?


    ETA: Oops, never mind. I see I'm late to the party.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpender View Post
    Problem: You are concerned that your brother will show up at a soccer game and want to "talk". How do you protect your family when you are coaching your daughter's soccer team...on school property? Should I be walking away from the team to protect all of the other girls from what might happen? You feel you should have your gun on your hip, but that's not an option. You've thought about a no contact order, but that won’t prevent anything. You would not be surprised if he showed up at your home or a game, hoping for a violent confrontation.

    Also, feel free to critique "your" actions in the "Story" section above since you are fairly certain you could have handled it better in hindsight.

    Thanks!
    I believe that it would be wise to temporally resign your position as soccer coach, at least for the rest of this season. I would hate to see a tragedy happen at a soccer field.

    You are unarmed because you are on school property. He came there only because you are there. There is a large group of innocent parents and children there and you are not sure exactly what he is capable of, but his behavior seems to be escalating?

  9. #23
    Member Array Sharpender's Avatar
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    Thanks to everyone for their advice! I have a feeling that all of this will come to a head sometime this week. I'm going to tell him that after 20+ years of doing this I'm done. "I love you, you're my brother, and you need help" If this doesn't shove him in the right direction, I'll get a "no contact"...that may be the thing that shows I'm dead serious this time. Thanks again all.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I am not sure of the procedure in your state but in Maryland a private citizen can go to a district court commissioner and file for an emergency evaluation petition. Once it is issued the local police/sheriff can pick the individual in question up and take him to the designated local hospital for an evaluation. Doctors can hold the person on the petition for seventy two hours. If during that time they decide the individual is a danger to himself or others they will then involuntarily commit him.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
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    I`d call the local police and the Sheriff,explain the situation and let them take it from there. This guy is a loose cannon and will kill somebody/himself sometime soon. They are way better trained than I am.Most are very Professional about things like this.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Spade115's Avatar
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    This might just be me, BUT.

    Id take his firearm from him, Beat him for harming our father and forcfully put him into a rehab program, if you have that much concern for him letting it ride out as if nothing happens you might as well call the cops and let them do their best with him.
    When life gives you lemons, Open a lemonaid buisness.

  13. #27
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    Having read the entire scenario...I would carry everywhere I went. I'd have a no-contact order at the ready and then tell my brother he is to stay away from my family (including parents--probably unenforceable, I know)...until he was drug-free and sober. I would report him to the police that he is a drug-addict and possesses a firearm. Why? Because he already knows what he needs to do, but refuses to do so. He's a selfish child who refuses to grow up.

    If it seems harsh, its because it appears no one has tried the "tough love" method. Life is hard...suck it up. Become a suicidal drug addict, and your life expectancy diminishes....a suicidal drug addict with a firearm threatening family members--don't buy any green bananas.
    Spade115 likes this.
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  14. #28
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    One word . . . "Disfunctional."
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  15. #29
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    Im sorry to say this but as someone from a family with a long long history of alcholism you are not helping your brother by doing nothing.

    You need to call the police, hhs, a psychologist, anything and everything you can think of until you can get him the right help, which is obviously that he needs to be instituitionalized until he is better.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    County judges sign people into institutions all the time here. When folks are arrested with mental issues, MHMR are called and they perform an assesment on the individual. They then contact the county judge and get the person commited to Terrell usually.

    This scenario is definately not beyond the realistic possiblity scenario. There are ways within the system to get the person help if you know how, or know people who know how. If you can't work within the system, I would definately be having a "come to Jesus" meeting with my sibling to ensure that my parents were not in a position to be harmed in the future. If I had to I would move in with them. If he showed up crazy or stupid again, well it would be dealt with and there wouldn't be any hearsay or such that the police couldn't act on.

    As far as carrying at the game. Well I am not going to be breaking the law so you look for other means.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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