Handling Someone Who Might Not Understand

This is a discussion on Handling Someone Who Might Not Understand within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Part of how I would handle it depends on the specific geography of the incident. Assuming my friend is in a position where they could ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Part of how I would handle it depends on the specific geography of the incident. Assuming my friend is in a position where they could realistically have been injured I am going to be asking them before, during, and after the 9-1-1 call if they are injured. I am not going to tell them anything, I am going to ask them things. Not about the bad guy or what he did, but about them. I am going to try to get them to knock their brain from freaked out feeling mode to thinking mode. Are they sure he didn't cut them? I am going to have them check themselves for any bleeding.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    OMG! You just told a woman that it IS all about her...
    You even used bold, underline AND italics....
    Traitor!!!
    Should I balance things out with the joke about the woman with 2 black eyes, or the one about the first thing a woman should do after getting home fromt he shelter?

  4. #18
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    I would assume that since the friend was not only a victim, but a witness their statement will hold the same weight as yours. I would in no way attempt to "coach" them in their statement. Even the hint that you were trying to get them to side with your story is going to look bad. The DA is going to have to make the decision whether to take it to a grand jury. Considering conflicting stories/perception, I would guess it is highly probable that he will. If you are allowed to have a lawyer present at the Grand Jury hearing, and he is allowed to ask questions, hopefully your lawyer will ask the responding officers the state of mind and agitation level of you and the witness. I would also assume he will make the point that you have XX number of years as a firearms trainer, XX number of classes dealing with use of force, the when and what is legal, as well as pointing out the other person has no training. If he is unable to sway the Grand Jury or is not allowed to question police/witnesses. He hopefully will be able to make the case when it goes to trial. Either way, your going to be out a lot of money for your defense.
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  5. #19
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    Friends like you describe, I don't have or need.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Lima, thanks for asking this question! Mitchell, thanks for answering it, confirming my suspiscions.

    I wouldn't try to coach someone... I like the idea of asking them questions... but once or twice is enough.

    They're gonna say what they're gonna say... perhaps when the officers arrive, THEY themselves will tell your friend how lucky they were to be with you... "this Bad Boy was a "frequent flyer," etc, maybe not.

    It is about me and my actions... the reasonable perception of threat and the evidence to back that up will likely outweigh the blabbering of the un hurt, un involved witness...

    That said, depending on the prosecutor... this one could be expensive.
    limatunes and shooterX like this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Friends like you describe, I don't have or need.
    But apparently you do need someone to teach you how to read....

    And before anyone goes posting something akin to "Choose your acquaintances more wisely," or "I wouldn't socialize with friends like that," let's just assume that at some point in your life and/or future you are forced to have at least one acquaintance who doesn't see perfect eye-to-eye with you on self defense and you have a moment of weakness and are caught in public wish such an individual.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    But apparently you do need someone to teach you how to read....
    Just calling it like I see it.

  9. #23
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    Lima:

    Just remember: You cannot control what anyone else says, or does, hence I agree with all posts above that basically provide the agreed litany of behavior in a SD shooting.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Should I balance things out with the joke about the woman with 2 black eyes, or the one about the first thing a woman should do after getting home fromt he shelter?
    the joke about the woman with 2 black eyes... but you have to tell it twice...
    atctimmy likes this.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Friends like you describe, I don't have or need.
    Fine. Then it's a coworker and you're going to your car after a meeting downtown. Better? No, let me guess. You don't go to meetings downtown. Fine. It's a stranger and you both walked out of the store at the same time. The point is, you're in the situation described. Now what?
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  12. #26
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gruntingfrog View Post
    Fine. Then it's a coworker and you're going to your car after a meeting downtown. Better? No, let me guess. You don't go to meetings downtown. Fine. It's a stranger and you both walked out of the store at the same time. The point is, you're in the situation described. Now what?
    Witnesses.

    Witnesses are bad.

    One story. Your story. End of story.

    If they happen to be friendlies...well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

    Cold, maybe. Effective, definitely.

    Immoral, unethical and illegal? What's your point?

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    ANYTHING you say...including what you say to your friend to try to shut her up...can be used against you.

    Hysterical ramblings of your friend aren't the core of the case. You are. Your actions, your decissions, your thought process, and your statements are the thing at issue.

    She's going off about why did you have to shoot him...so what?

    Really, so what?

    She's confirming the guy had a knife. She's confirming his location (10 feet away...) and she's confirming your acted with lethal force.

    GREAT!!!

    Knives are lethal force.
    Knives within contact distance are lethal force.
    You are going with a self defense claim, right? So she confirms you shot him - you weren't going to deny it anyway!

    You give up nothing.

    You gain a lot. Why shut her up?

    You be silent. You be sober.

    You be in shock, that you were in fear of your life, and that you understand you just had a serious incident, and would like some time to compose yourself, and are sorry but don't think you can (sob, sniffle, sob) talk about it right now. And no, you aren't alright.

    Because (and I tremble to say this to a female...) it IS all about you.
    I agree 100% with what MitchellCT said in this post.

    Your attorney is going to have to deal with what the friend/acquaintance/witness said which may bring scrutiny to your actions. But in the mean time, what the witness is doing is at the same time supporting your affirmative defense by confirming the lethal threat (whether they believed it was lethal or not) and confirming other things like how close they were to you, etc. All good things.

    But again, let your attorney deal with any negative statements the witness may say which is based on their uneducated opinion. It would be the same thing he would have to do if the witness was a total stranger instead of a friend/acquaintance of yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Witnesses.

    Witnesses are bad.

    One story. Your story. End of story.

    If they happen to be friendlies...well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

    Cold, maybe. Effective, definitely.

    Immoral, unethical and illegal? What's your point?
    Are you saying you should shoot the friend who's becoming unhinged before the police arrive? You know... leave no witnesses?



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  14. #28
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    OP : It can happen, just like you suggest..... you've gotten good advice, " I was in fear of my life" . period.

    But, in the cases similar to what you describe have occurred that I saw ... (I was not the friend nor one involved) was ... the "friend" was saying.... "oh my god I'm glad you had your gun" , "if you hadn't had that gun, we'ld be dead", etc. It's amazing how their view of things, can quickly change. Typically, the fear instilled by the person threatening either of you with a knife or gun .... is the over-riding factor.

    If they are so stupid as to think, you should not have protected yourself..... they are way too stupid to understand anything else.
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  15. #29
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    OK, you just called 911 and the cops are on the way. Right then would be a good time to train your friend in combat breathing. Probably be just the thing for both of you. You are not trying to influence her testimony but only to calm her. Inhale 2-3-4, hold it 2-3-4, exhale 2-3-4, until the cops arrive.
    Bark'n and limatunes like this.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    OK, you just called 911 and the cops are on the way. Right then would be a good time to train your friend in combat breathing. Probably be just the thing for both of you. You are not trying to influence her testimony but only to calm her. Inhale 2-3-4, hold it 2-3-4, exhale 2-3-4, until the cops arrive.
    Good idea. And would certainly calm her down, stop her hyperventilating and help clear her head.
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