You decide to act, which threat do you stop first?

This is a discussion on You decide to act, which threat do you stop first? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Billspider Under this situation, acting will more than likely get you killed. Your odds of surviving are slim with one gunman, almost ...

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Thread: You decide to act, which threat do you stop first?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billspider View Post
    Under this situation, acting will more than likely get you killed.
    Your odds of surviving are slim with one gunman, almost non exiisting with two guns trained on you.
    I'm sorry. I'm not inclined to trust the individual that points a gun at me with the threat of killing me, to do the right thing.

    With your philosophy, why bother ever carrying a firearm?

    'Respectfully,

    -whec
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  3. #17
    Ex Member Array 5thMarines's Avatar
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    Shoot the nervous guy centermass , and empty a mag on the first guy , solves the problem , then before the cops get there fire each of there weapons in the direction you were standing

  4. #18
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    Hah!,I would expect a better answer than that out of a Marine,it was working up until the point were you broke the law!
    Quote Originally Posted by 5thMarines View Post
    Shoot the nervous guy centermass , and empty a mag on the first guy , solves the problem , then before the cops get there fire each of there weapons in the direction you were standing
    atctimmy and Sticks like this.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5thMarines View Post
    Shoot the nervous guy centermass , and empty a mag on the first guy , solves the problem , then before the cops get there fire each of there weapons in the direction you were standing
    Wha!? C'mon you're kidding, right? They've presented lethal force, you've done a righteous shoot, and you're gonna monkey with the situation so that you can go to jail too? That is about the worst advice that you could put out there.
    atctimmy, Sticks and Bark'n like this.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5thMarines View Post
    Shoot the nervous guy centermass , and empty a mag on the first guy , solves the problem , then before the cops get there fire each of there weapons in the direction you were standing
    Hope you're kidding. Rearranging the shooting scene is never a good idea.

    I should add that in a store like this one, there is usually surveillance video and the police will want to see that. If you get rid of the video, that throws suspicion at you also. It was the video evidence that helped seal the fate of the pharmacist in Oklahoma.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5thMarines View Post
    Shoot the nervous guy centermass , and empty a mag on the first guy , solves the problem , then before the cops get there fire each of there weapons in the direction you were standing

    Quickest way for a trip to the pokey for sure.....






    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    the counter is between me and them--

    I'm going to pretend to faint; collapsing onto the floor on my back with my gun in hand hidden under my coat
    since i am right handed i would fall to the left placing my right hand away from the counter--
    if either looks over the counter he/they will grow holes in their heads.

    but likely they will take what they want ( its all insured and far less expensive than what shooting them would cost you)
    and leave.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
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    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    Have a Judge in a holster 'mounted' under the counter. 'Reach for the register' and grab the gun- put a round of .410SD ammo through the flimsy counter. That would hit one or both enough to take almost all the fight out of them, then it's just 'mopping up' duty after that. IF it doesn't hit them both, as soon as the first round is off start squeezing the second.

    But, that's based on the idea that it is YOUR business- that you can make the interior what you want- and that they really feel like a serious threat- not the type that you automatically think they're just here for the money and running off. Possibly not the BEST solution, but probably much more legal than having a permanently mounted 12ga under he counter.

    As always, in a situation where you're already staring at two muzzles, compliance would likely be your best bet for survival; at least 75% of BGs don't want an unnecessary murder charge added to the armed robbery.

    -my $.02.
    "Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"

    "Gun control means hitting your target every time."

    Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.

  10. #24
    Member Array Eaglebeak's Avatar
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    Under the original scenario posed, it would be impossible for me to give an opinion on picking the first threat to stop without being there to assess everything to a better degree because picking either one first could easily be the best thing to do or the worst mistake you could make.

    You have to assume that both BGs are ready to shoot - assuming otherwise could easily be your last false assumption. Cool, calm guy is most likely very calloused and ready to react without hesitation; squirrelly guy is nervous, antsy, and probably already has enough finger-pressure on the trigger from being tensed-up to accidently shoot you as a reflex action to the slightest move or sound that spooks him over the edge. So, making a move on either one could easily cause an instant bad result from the other.

    I guess each individual would have to make his/her own choices about what to do with a quick assessment of their personal ability with respect to any slight change in the circumstances that might make one of the BGs less of an instant threat for a second or two and allow you to pop the other one first.

    Perhaps the situation would be better served by instantly dropping to the floor behind the counter as your weapon is coming out, take a defensive position on the floor or in the corner, and nail the first one who leans over or steps around the end of the counter first - then wait for #2 to make his move over or around your cover (or out the door).

    Sometimes a business owner can take pre-planned measures to quickly give themselves an advantage like the wonderful couple who own the large liquor store I trade at on a regular basis. Chinese-born, naturalized American citizens in their mid-30's, very spunky and both with CHLs who have survived four armed holdup attempts (when most of the BGs didn't) over the past 5 years. Both are well practiced with their pistols, but also have a foot-switch on the floor near the cash register. Pressing the foot switch instantly activates a digital recording played through a speaker on the opposite store wall behind anyone facing the "customer side" of the counter. Starts with a very low-volume, very gutteral growl (to keep from triggering any unwanted reflex action from a BG) that slowly increases in volume for about 2 seconds before erupting into the scariest German Shepard bark you'll ever hear. No BG on the planet can stand with their back turned to that - and when they whirl away from the counter to face their attacker, a couple of 9mm's start barking from behind the counter. Don't mess with these short little Texans :)

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    To the guy who suggested moving the crime scene around by firing the deceased guns in your direction, one word; stupid. It's called Tampering with physical Evidence. You are one of those that do not even need to carry a weapon.

    As for my thoughts, in this situation, I would let it play out, be ready and be attentive. Constantly evaluating the situation while determining the best course of action.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  12. #26
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    I saw that video and was going over what to do when it was playing. They got the drop on the guy and he would have had to be the Cisco Kid from Impossible Shots to stand a chance. Where he may have had a chance was when they took him in the back room to open the safe but that was off camera.

    The L shaped counter reduces the angle to GOTX and not sure but it appeared that the counters were glass except where the cash register was so dropping out of sight was a non option. The clerk was away from the register when they came in and by the time he was headed to the register one of the BGs was behind the counter and the other had his gun at full extension so grabbing a gun stashed beside the register is risky at best.

    Evaluating your chance of success against your probability of failure will sometimes dictate that you be a good witness. I carry a gun to defend myself, my family and loved ones, and the lives of others. Not to commit suicide. IMO trying to outdraw 2 men while being able to see the rifling of their barrels is near suicide.

    5thmarines - what the OP didn't state was that there was a video, SLAM DUNK, you go to jail. Even if there wasn't a video, forensics would be able to determine that the angle of fire was inconsistent with a first shot attack. If it is a righteous shoot you don't have to do anything. No where does it state that the BG has to fire before you can fire.
    Train like your life depends on it, because it does.

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  13. #27
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    Lance Thomas had handguns mounted under the counter every three feet or so. He drew and fired "against the drop" in at least one case. In at least one case there were multiple attackers.

    What would I do? Well, since compliance doesn't work...

    I gotta admit I like Sticks notion to ask the "leader" to tell his buddy there to chill... Might throw a hitch in his getalong... If he does get his partner to ease up:
    "Thanks, that makes me a whole lot more comfortable. Not to worry man, I'm insured"
    "The phones are right here, under the counter."
    Bend down to get 'em, come up with (or without) a box, but definitely with a gun, firing at the leader...
    Next is "squirmy." Unless he's running scared after dropping his weapon, let him go, they'll find him.

    Then, since they were gangbangers and the gang threatened my customers and me... quit the bidness, and do appointment only, somewhere out of the hood, just like Lance Thomas.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    To the guy who suggested moving the crime scene around by firing the deceased guns in your direction, one word; stupid. It's called Tampering with physical Evidence. You are one of those that do not even need to carry a weapon.

    As for my thoughts, in this situation, I would let it play out, be ready and be attentive. Constantly evaluating the situation while determining the best course of action.
    Trolls are everywhere, and here is no exception. Ever wonder how many anti's are here, at least lurking, at any particular time?

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    Take out the leader first, always...

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Trolls are everywhere, and here is no exception. Ever wonder how many anti's are here, at least lurking, at any particular time?
    I am pretty ignorant when it comes to Trolls and things. This is my first forum. Hell, Im not even computer literate.
    I don't understand what peope get out of going thru all the trouble of joining just to be stupid.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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