You decide to act, which threat do you stop first?

[Eagleks]

That's way too open to answer.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Sticks]

I saw that video and was going over what to do when it was playing. They got the drop on the guy and he would have had to be the Cisco Kid from Impossible Shots to stand a chance. Where he may have had a chance was when they took him in the back room to open the safe but that was off camera....

I did not know that there was news video, post if you wish. Wife saw the news and passed on the cliff notes of the incident. Had I know there was video, I would not have posted anyways since the particulars of the BGs were what I wanted this thread focused on.

That is what got me to thinking of how would you deal with that dynamic of 1 focused BG and the other twitchy. A bit of a conundrum, so I thew it out here for some honest opinions.

Seems the consensus here is eliminate the calm BG and hope for the best with twitchy.

Under the original scenario posed, it would be impossible for me to give an opinion on picking the first threat to stop without being there to assess everything to a better degree because picking either one first could easily be the best thing to do or the worst mistake you could make.

You have to assume that both BGs are ready to shoot - assuming otherwise could easily be your last false assumption. Cool, calm guy is most likely very calloused and ready to react without hesitation; squirrelly guy is nervous, antsy, and probably already has enough finger-pressure on the trigger from being tensed-up to accidently shoot you as a reflex action to the slightest move or sound that spooks him over the edge. So, making a move on either one could easily cause an instant bad result from the other.

I guess each individual would have to make his/her own choices about what to do with a quick assessment of their personal ability with respect to any slight change in the circumstances that might make one of the BGs less of an instant threat for a second or two and allow you to pop the other one first...

That would be the conundrum I was wrestling with.

[5thMarines]

Just messin with you guys , but for sure I would "double tap" the nervous guy first ,he's your first and foremost threat because you really dont know where he stands! the Other guy just take him out ! Personally speaking I dont need the heroics or the press , if I was a customer , I would prpbably leave the scene and let the cops figure it out , my job was done! If I owned the shop , I would be soiling my britches because if one of those losers lived I would be in court blowing my entire savings and business fighting the city and some defense attorney for killing there client and because the city would have to by law file charges of manslaughter at best against me!



Thats why I said as a customer I did my job , c'ya down the road and ya dont need to thank me!

[gottabkiddin]

Just messin with you guys , but for sure I would "double tap" the nervous guy first ,he's your first and foremost threat because you really dont know where he stands! the Other guy just take him out ! Personally speaking I dont need the heroics or the press , if I was a customer , I would prpbably leave the scene and let the cops figure it out , my job was done! If I owned the shop , I would be shittin my britches because if one of those losers lived I would be in court blowing my entire savings and business fighting the city and some defense attorney for killing there client and because the city would have to by law file charges of manslaughter at best against me!

Your ******!

Thats why I said as a customer I did my job , c'ya down the road and ya dont need to thank me!

You're doing it again aren't you...

[tomtsr]

Sticks,

I think it is a good post. I looked for the video on the news site and it wasn't there. I saw the clip during the broadcast.

I love what if scenarios, but this is why they are so difficult. They play our so much differently. I find myself playing out a situation in many ways from differing angles for that very reason.

[OldVet]

I ain't got time to figure out no OODA loop; I'm just shooting both and sorting it out afterwards.

[jonconsiglio]

Just messin with you guys , but for sure I would "double tap" the nervous guy first ,he's your first and foremost threat because you really dont know where he stands! the Other guy just take him out ! Personally speaking I dont need the heroics or the press , if I was a customer , I would prpbably leave the scene and let the cops figure it out , my job was done! If I owned the shop , I would be shittin my britches because if one of those losers lived I would be in court blowing my entire savings and business fighting the city and some defense attorney for killing there client and because the city would have to by law file charges of manslaughter at best against me!

Your ******!

Thats why I said as a customer I did my job , c'ya down the road and ya dont need to thank me!

WHAT!?

[zacii]

I would point behind them and say "Hey, did you see that hottie?" And as they turned to look I'd give 'em each 460 grains of lead as an appetizer...

[Bark'n]

My general consideration for situations like these is to initiate the engagement and start shooting. However, there are just too many factors you are going to have to take in and process as things are going down to really say exactly what I would do.

One of the first things one wants to do when facing multiple gunners is to get off the friggon X in an explosive burst as you initiate your draw. When you go to shootin, you don't want to be standing in the same place you were previously.

One of the other things you want to try and process as you are doing that, is Can you line them up (one in front of the other) as you are moving off the X? That will dictate how you move off the X. If your movements can line them up so the second guy loses a good line of fire, so much the better.

Now, without being there, as it plays out, you have no idea if being behind the counter will allow that type of movement to take place or not. If you can't get off the X in such a way that lines them up single file, but only put distance between the three of you, which direction are you going to move, and which one of them are going to be the closest?

These are going to be the kinds of things I will be trying to process as I make my decision. If things look all out of whack, I may just hold tight and see what other kinds of actions they make to give me more data to process.

As I said, my natural inclination based on my mindset and how I've trained to engage such encounters is to go ahead and commences shooting. But, there's a lot of data I'm processing which helps me make the final determination.

Now some people are not going to understand what I'm trying to convey here, and others might think it's bunk. But realistically, these things are pretty fluid and dynamic situations and because they are, I have a pre-determined idea of how I'm going to respond. That helps in a quick and decisive reaction. But I am in no way going to exclude evaluating the unknown things I can't foresee until I'm actually in the middle of it and see how it plays out.

[SIGguy229]

Shoot the nervous guy centermass , and empty a mag on the first guy , solves the problem , then before the cops get there fire each of there weapons in the direction you were standing

Great! Evidence tampering!

You know that is against the law, right?