Back Shooting. Why not? - Page 3

Back Shooting. Why not?

This is a discussion on Back Shooting. Why not? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hopyard EVERYONE is responsible for where the bullet from their gun ends up. I didn't say an observer of an aggravated assault ...

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Thread: Back Shooting. Why not?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    EVERYONE is responsible for where the bullet from their gun ends up. I didn't say an observer of an aggravated assault had a right to be an idiot and shoot the victim.

    As for your brain surgeon story above, we all have active and creative imaginations; we can dream up anything that is possible. OK? Do you think it would be a better choice to try to knock the attacker off center before shooting him? What if he gets a shot off as you slam him?

    Yup, you could mind your own business, get a good description, let him out the door--- but oops, he shoots the clerk while you are being a good witness.

    Look, anything and everything that we all can imagine happening will sometimes happen. Its a game of odds.
    Okay, we now have four possible courses of action:

    1. Be a good witness
    2. Take the shot
    3. Take the shot AFTER verbally distracting the BG and hopefully getting the muzzle off the clerk BEFORE the muzzle covers you.
    4. Try to knock the attacker off center (I assume physically?) before shooting him.


    Of these, which has the better "odds" of successful outcome by any CCW carrier (including Nerdby).

    Inferred by the posts; you have time and ability to draw, attain sight picture without BG's knowledge prior to any action.

    My presumption is that if you have the time to do that, you also have the time to "draw" him off his target (even slightly) and assume a position which allows for not only a good shoot but a clean one.

    Less risk to the clerk by involuntary action on the part of the BG, less risk of "friendly fire" to the clerk from my gun. We cannot eliminate all risk.

    But, I maintain the odds for all involved are better if you draw his weapon off his target, even minutely.

    It's only an opinion, but I hold on to it rather strongly... and since it is a public forum, it gives all the "Nerdbys" a more complete perspective.. than "just take the shot, you'll be in the right."
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Attempting to draw the attackers attention as a way to increase your odds of saving your life or others makes perfect sense to me. I do not question that kind of reaction. You would simply be trying to increase your odds of taking out the bad guy without endangering others.

    My problem is with those who through some misguided sense of fair play believe it is wrong under any circumstance to shoot someone from behind. Or, is it some law that is holding you back from taking action?

    Michael
    Last edited by mlr1m; November 8th, 2011 at 02:40 PM. Reason: I made an oopsie

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Attempting to draw the attackers attention as a way to increase your odds of saving your life or others makes perfect sense to me. I do not question that kind of reaction. You would simply be trying to increase your odds of taking out the bad guy without endangering others.

    My problem is with those who through some misguided sense of fair play believe it is wrong under any circumstance to shoot someone from behind. Or, is it some law that is holding you back from taking action?

    Michael
    I think most of the time it's not so much a sense of fair play as it is the law and people's various interpretations of it. The police that arrive at the scene and make the initial report submit their interpretation of the law. The grand jury interprets. It winds up in the hands of lawyers, juries, and judges. Maybe they all agree with you that it was a good shoot. Maybe they don't. The justice system isn't always fair and a jury isn't always impartial.

    The easiest way to avoid that is to not take the shot at all and be a good witness. But then you always have to live with the knowledge that you might have been able to do something, if you had only acted. It's a tough call.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  4. #34
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    There is simply no good and generally acceptable answer to this scenario. Trying to get the BGs gun off center
    can go horrible wrong. If you try to rush him he might fire just from tensing as he is about to get hit. If you try to draw his attention away he might be angered and pull the trigger.

    No one knows what the BG is going to do intentionally or unintentionally. No one can foretell whether any action taken or not taken will improve things or make them go South.

    The one and only thing that is 100% plus certain is that absolutely everything is going to be second guessed and gone over ad nauseum with an intent to place civil or criminal blame on the good guy present----the old saying, " let no good deed go unpunished will apply."
    rhinokrk likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  5. #35
    AOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Training does indeed eliminate "paralysis from analysis." So, train to yell "Hey Buddy!" (use the vernacular) take a knee and shoot upward, or from laying on your side. Don't just train against paper targets in the "Weaver modified weaver isosceles upright" (insert your fave here) stance. Do your analysis here... Do your training for these odd situations there.

    And, prevail without mishap (or at the least with a lesser chance of mishap) IRL, if you're lucky.
    So you are suggesting getting into a platform where you have little to no mobility even if you don't need to? A platform where if you don't practice and train enough from your accuracy will possibly decrease as well as have a difficult time reloading or handling malfunctions? Personally I'd be looking to shoot from behind cover standing with very little of me exposed if the option is there.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    I'm not going to distract the BG. I'm going to shoot and let what happens, happen. I'm not some superhero, and will live with whatever happens. At least I can sleep at night knowing I did what I could no matter the end result.

    It's better than not trying to help, and people end up dead anyways.

  7. #37
    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
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    If you shoot the BG in back of the legs enough, eventually he'll turn around for you.

  8. #38
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    I go with distraction before taking the shot. You really want to break the OODA loop. It will give you a tactical advantage.

  9. #39
    AOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by sd976 View Post
    I go with distraction before taking the shot. You really want to break the OODA loop. It will give you a tactical advantage.
    I think a constant rain of fire into their back will drastically put a hitch in the assailant's OODA loop.
    Deuce130 likes this.

  10. #40
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    To cover all the safety rules in this situation I see the need to slip up behind him place the barrel of my pistol just above his right ear, (if you put it in his ear there would nothing at all to hit going to the other side, clear tunnel all the way) as I am right handed, making sure no one is standing on his left side and pull the trigger. I am sure even the newbie could make that shot (if he is good at slipping up on people)

    In a SHTF situation I don't see any of us having the time to do all this thinking and setting it up just the way we want it. Shoot the SOB and lets all go home safe. If we are going to worry about all the what ifs that could happen we need to just leave our guns at home and be good witnesses. Then we don't need to worry about if we should or shouldn't shoot.
    garyacman and rhinokrk like this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    To cover all the safety rules in this situation I see the need to slip up behind him place the barrel of my pistol just above his right ear, (if you put it in his ear there would nothing at all to hit going to the other side, clear tunnel all the way) as I am right handed, making sure no one is standing on his left side and pull the trigger. I am sure even the newbie could make that shot (if he is good at slipping up on people)

    In a SHTF situation I don't see any of us having the time to do all this thinking and setting it up just the way we want it. Shoot the SOB and lets all go home safe. If we are going to worry about all the what ifs that could happen we need to just leave our guns at home and be good witnesses. Then we don't need to worry about if we should or shouldn't shoot.
    About 20 years ago we had a jewelry store robbery in progress here when the owner walked in. He did just what you proposed, put his gun to the robber's head. Then, he marched him out of the store, half a block away from the
    store, and ordered him to run. Meanwhile the folks in the store did the 911 thingy and I think they found the robber another block or two down the street running for his life. Of course, there is never any certitude that
    what this store owner did wouldn't have gone badly wrong.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  12. #42
    Ex Member Array CUMMINS's Avatar
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    Doesn't our duty and legallity of carry allow us to use deadly force to prevent commission of a forcible felony

  13. #43
    Ex Member Array Jim Rat-a tat tat's Avatar
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    Its called the rules of deadly force. As much as you may feel you want to shoot them first in the back try explaining that one to the DA. I'm way to pretty for prison myself.

  14. #44
    Ex Member Array Jim Rat-a tat tat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CUMMINS View Post
    Doesn't our duty and legallity of carry allow us to use deadly force to prevent commission of a forcible felony
    No not at all. Study the force continuum.

  15. #45
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    "I'm not a gun lawyer, but I play one anonymously on an internet forum."
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