Dealing with multiple BG's

They are out there, is this BG tactic of groups/gangs escalating?

I know we've had threads here of dealing with flash mobs. Here are two recent articles of multiple BG's overwhelming a couple and a single victim. Two different cities, two different groups.

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - A man and his girlfriend walking in the French Quarter were jumped by a group that beat and robbed them.

Police say the couple was walking near Bourbon Street about 5:30 Monday morning. Two women walked in front of them. Authorities say a vehicle then stopped and two men got out of the car and assaulted the man, beating him with a gun and taking his belongings.

The two women then turned and assaulted the woman and took her belongings.

Police said Tuesday that all four of the robbers then got in the vehicle and fled in an unknown direction.

Note, it's a "tag team" of two women on foot and two men in a vehicle. The main problem above is walking in a risky place at 5:30 in the morning, and it doesn't happen in just New Orleans either, note the horror story below:

Elderly man kidnapped, raped near Socorro park
SOCORRO, Texas —
Socorro police and the FBI are looking for four men who police say attacked and raped an elderly man who was out on his early-morning walk.

Investigators said the 70-year-old was walking Thursday around 6 a.m. at Valle del Sol Park on Valle Rico Road and Valle Fertil when they said four black men got out of a late-'90s Ford or Chevrolet van or minivan and demanded the Mexican-American man to give them money. When he said, "No," they allegedly grabbed him, threw him in the van and raped him.

Socorro spokesman David Garcia said the men yelled racial slurs at the victim as they assaulted him.

"These four people know each other well enough to do something like this in front of each other. This is an atrocity!” Garcia said. “This man was somebody's dad. This man was somebody's brother, somebody's friend."

He said the victim was so badly hurt, he had surgery and is in serious condition at a hospital.

“I think that's ridiculous. A 70-year-old man getting taken and raped by an unknown vehicle, you know,” Christian Nevarez, 23, said. He lives in the neighborhood and said he usually wakes up early and sees several people taking walks along the park. He said children also walk to school early in the morning.

Police said the attackers are in their mid-20s to 30s. Call Socorro police at 915-858-6986 if you have any information in this case.

The victim was out walking at 6 am, I'm not familiar with the conditions of his neighborhood. I'm guessing the old guy was an early riser and the BG's were still out, though it was still dark. This is a classic case of him looking like and being a victim. Poor guy !

So much can be prevented with SA, not being in a bad place at a bad time, and being armed.

A sad reminder that many of us cannot fathom the depths of depravity that is lurking out there.

I have been so fortunate. Most of my friends here in DC have been mugged. I like to think it is my military training and situational awareness but maybe it is my 6'3" height and 285lb bulk.

These are sad stories, and I feel bad for the victims. It is easy to Monday morning Quaterback things after they happen..I dont wanna sound insensitive but learn from these situations, look at what could have prevented the incident. learn from other peoples mistakes.

Dooga--- I understand where your comming from. I have been all over the US including Baltimore and DC, I cant count the number of times I have "starled" somebody when they turn a corner and see me or turn around and I am there...lol I am 6ft 260LBS, Big scar on the side of my head..lol I never do it on purpose, I just walk real soft.(prob from all the night time ops I have done)..scared the crap out of a coworker yesterday..I just walked into the kitchen at work and he saw me and jumped...prob scare the wife at least once a day, she swears she is gonna get me a cat bell so she can hear me walking..lol

4 on 1 is a tough fight, need a equalizer that you are well trained to use.

If you determine not to be a victim and are willing to do what it takes to prevent being a victim then the 4 or more need to fear you!!!!!!!

The name Glock comes to mind with many others quality names also.

one of the reasons I carry a G19 with two back up mags. Wolves run in packs and cowards gain strength in numbers. I've seen a group of thugs say and do things that one sane man alone would never consider.


http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/p...qualizer-2.jpg

This is where situational awareness and being in tune with body language are going to be your biggest saviors... at least in the first scenario.

Unless their act has been rehearsed to the expertise of professional actors (which it could be) there is probably going to be a lot of non-verbal communication that you are being targeted.

The two women will likely be looking over their shoulder at you and/or looking for the attack car to arrive, looking at each other evaluating each others' readiness non-verbally. When they see the familiar vehicle there will likely be a look of recognition on their face, etc, etc, etc.

A man and woman just walking down the street and not paying attention to anyone but themselves (or their cell phones) are not going to pick up on these non-verbal cues.

Paying attention and distancing yourself from anyone paying particular attention to you is one of the easiest/best ways to deter an attack but you have to be aware that that individual is targeting you first.

These days it's easier than ever to spot if someone is looking for a target.. he/she/they will be the only ones without their nose buried in their cell phone.

A bad position to be & 4 to 1 would be tough; this shows how far man can fall and is willing to take
advantage of his fellow man. Shows you never know when or where you will be confronted by BG.

Reading this makes me kind of rethink my carry options. I have never been the 9mm fan
but I do have some. Since the trend is going more & more to mob or flash group attacks
I will start carry more ammo. Sometimes a 5 shot 38 might not be enough.

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Originally Posted by limatunes

The two women will likely be looking over their shoulder at you and/or looking for the attack car to arrive, looking at each other evaluating each others' readiness non-verbally. When they see the familiar vehicle there will likely be a look of recognition on their face, etc, etc, etc.

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The news article didn't allude to this, but a couple walking the streets near the FQ at 5:30 am could be trying to buy drugs; the two women may have told them to follow them and they'd take them to get what they need, when in fact they were only leading two targets (with money) for a set-up.

Regardless, there certainly could be some non-verbal clues and/or they could be communicating with the guys via a bluetooth and "code words".

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Originally Posted by WHEC724

A sad reminder that many of us cannot fathom the depths of depravity that is lurking out there.

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Agreed...:frown::mad:

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Originally Posted by ppkheat

The news article didn't allude to this, but a couple walking the streets near the FQ at 5:30 am could be trying to buy drugs; the two women may have told them to follow them and they'd take them to get what they need, when in fact they were only leading two targets (with money) for a set-up.

Regardless, there certainly could be some non-verbal clues and/or they could be communicating with the guys via a bluetooth and "code words".

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There's a lot the article doesn't allude to but in order for me to make the scenario applicable to me I have to assume it's a random attack because I'm certainly not going to be wandering the streets looking for drugs and following drug-dealing girl-friends into dark allies.

After taking Roger PHillips Point Shooting Progressions, I can say that with the right equipment, training, and mindset with awareness, you stand a far better chance in the above situations. As has been said here, they travel in packs, your training needs to help you to deal with that.

The really disconcerting part for me in these multiple opponent crimes, is there is no real good way to handle it. Sometimes, I think that training for these scenarios may actually place you at a disadvantage. I say this because sometimes in training, we get into a rut, and the fluid nature of the event becomes lost, and we can get into a mindset of left to right or right to left, or whatever. Then, if actually confronted with the nightmare we have trained for, we react inexactly the way we train, which may be totally wrong to the situation.

Im not saying training is wrong for these scenarios, just more or less thinking out loud.

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Originally Posted by glockman10mm

The really disconcerting part for me in these multiple opponent crimes, is there is no real good way to handle it. Sometimes, I think that training for these scenarios may actually place you at a disadvantage. I say this because sometimes in training, we get into a rut, and the fluid nature of the event becomes lost, and we can get into a mindset of left to right or right to left, or whatever. Then, if actually confronted with the nightmare we have trained for, we react inexactly the way we train, which may be totally wrong to the situation.

Im not saying training is wrong for these scenarios, just more or less thinking out loud.

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If you would have trouble in one of these, then the rest of us are really screwed if a situation like this comes our way. :frown:

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Originally Posted by zonker1986

If you would have trouble in one of these, then the rest of us are really screwed if a situation like this comes our way. :frown:

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I dont know about that. The altercations I have been in were mainly youthful ignorance, when everybodies bullet proof. The ones Ive had since then were just a mixture of luck and somebody upstairs feeling sorry for me, and lending a hand. As I get older, I realize it more and more.

The law of averages catches all of us sooner or later, one way or the other. And truthfully, we really dont have as much to say about it as we like to think.