Your friends course of action? - Page 2

Your friends course of action?

This is a discussion on Your friends course of action? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't have any friends, and only very few family members I tolerate. But hey, that's just me....

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Thread: Your friends course of action?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array RKflorida's Avatar
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    I don't have any friends, and only very few family members I tolerate. But hey, that's just me.


  2. #17
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    Dozens of options exist here. The situation has to be assessed in detail. First thought is: cover, cell phone, 911. Left my cell phone at the table? Maybe pull the fire alarm. I like the idea of calming the friend down friend down and discouraging any drama. Sounds like the situation is static--charged, but essentially static. Time is now working against the hostage taker. Just about anything that can slow down the subsequent events works in favor of life.

    I'm not sure being judgmental about my friend's decision to carry and not train is going to add much value right at this moment. Later, it might be worth mentioning that if he is going to carry he should train appropriately. Maybe invite him to the range for some CQC drills....or basic marksmanship.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Devilsclaw's Avatar
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    I didn't know you were friends with my father-in-law? :)

  4. #19
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    I would start thanking God that only about 5% of handgun wounds are fatal and that I have a blow out kit in my bag because my family member is likely to get shot if I can't get my friend to calm down.

    And this doesn't have to be a totally untrained individual either. Hostage shots are much harder than people think. ANYONE who takes the shot, even the most experienced person, has the possibility of missing. All it takes is one quick move, one small twitch and your loved one is getting a bullet.

    Yes, I would try to talk the friend out of taking the shot but I would also start dialoging with my family member. "Does he have permission to take the shot?"

    If my family member says, "No!" Then I'm going to say, "Hear that? He said you do not have permission to take the shot. Put the gun down."

    That being said, JD and I have already discussed whether or not we have permission to take the shot if taken hostage and we are far more in tune to one another and our wishes and how we could work together in such an encounter.

    What I would do then would depend a lot on what the BG was doing with the gun.. if it was trained on his head, or over his shoulder, etc. I trust JD's ability to control a firearm if he can and then there's a lot of things that could happen really fast. If it's someone else (my child, mother, etc) I'll just have to play it out as I see it but one thing is certain: No BG is leaving the area with my child without getting shot at. PERIOD!

  5. #20
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    Verbal judo is great stuff.
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  6. #21
    Ex Member Array NYCrulesU's Avatar
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    Everything looks good on paper or rehearsed in your head. Nearly every response I've heard would get someone or multiple someone's killed. One particular response was more ridiculous than the others though. So kudos to that person.

  7. #22
    Member Array oneeyedwilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCrulesU View Post
    Everything looks good on paper or rehearsed in your head. Nearly every response I've heard would get someone or multiple someone's killed. One particular response was more ridiculous than the others though. So kudos to that person.
    So what would you do?

  8. #23
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    timmy once again as someone else said "go to your room" and you may borrow the time out chair.
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    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #24
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    "Please, Mister, Do anything you want to these other people, just leave me alone!!!"

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array NYCrulesU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneeyedwilly View Post
    So what would you do?
    Couldn't say. Never been put in that position. Speculation is nothing more than fantasy. No one here, who hasn't been put in that exact REAL LIFE scenerio, can say what he/she would do. Mock scenerios and all the backyard training in the world can't prepare you for the real thing. You just don't know what you'll do until you cross that bridge.
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  11. #26
    Member Array Deuce130's Avatar
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    Quite frankly, I don't think I'd want the OP to take the shot either. As Lima alluded to, I don't care how many thousands of rounds you've sent downrange, I guarantee they weren't all bullseyes from 7 feet. Please don't try to take a headshot under pressure with a family member (or anyone, really) a few inches away from your intended target, which most likely isn't neatly tacked at all four corners to a stationary board. This isn't Hollywood. In addition, when I made the decision to arm myself, I haven't taken on the responsibility to take this kind of shot under this kind of pressure. It's to defend myself, AND OTHERS, when situations and conditions permit. Lack of training on someone's part doesn't mean they're required to make even more bad decisions - know your limits.

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Couldn't say. Never been put in that position. Speculation is nothing more than fantasy. No one here, who hasn't been put in that exact REAL LIFE scenerio, can say what he/she would do. Mock scenerios and all the backyard training in the world can't prepare you for the real thing. You just don't know what you'll do until you cross that bridge.
    Yeah, probably a real good chance that all my/our/your training may get flushed down the mental toilet in a reallife situation. However, I, for one, prefer to try and think through these types or scenarios on the off-chance that some training and thinking thru situations is better than NO training.........if I ever,God forbid, find myself in something like this, maybe I'll remember just a bit of what I tried to think through.
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

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  13. #28
    Member Array bolocanolo's Avatar
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    The setting is a crowded restaurant. You come out of the bathroom after hearing a scream outside. The BG has a loved one in a choke hold. Some of the suggestions in this forum are to move around the the BG into position for a possible shot. Your friend already has one gun out, the BG has another. Now you come along and draw your weapon, trying to move into a position to take a shot. What do you do, or how do you control the other human beings in the room reaction at seeing another weapon. Does the reaction alert the BG that you're there? Does the BG panic at this point, what does he do? Does this then escalate into an all out gun fight? I'm curious to see other thoughts on this matter. I'm not suggesting not do anything, but similarly other innocent victims are at risk.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolocanolo View Post
    The setting is a crowded restaurant. You come out of the bathroom after hearing a scream outside. The BG has a loved one in a choke hold. Some of the suggestions in this forum are to move around the the BG into position for a possible shot. Your friend already has one gun out, the BG has another. Now you come along and draw your weapon, trying to move into a position to take a shot. What do you do, or how do you control the other human beings in the room reaction at seeing another weapon. Does the reaction alert the BG that you're there? Does the BG panic at this point, what does he do? Does this then escalate into an all out gun fight? I'm curious to see other thoughts on this matter. I'm not suggesting not do anything, but similarly other innocent victims are at risk.
    I think we have missed the original intent of this thread. Some here have had extensive training while others havent..The old saying "the training kicked in" will hold true in this scenario. The OP original intent was to seek training whether or not you CC or OC...I could be wrong, but thats what I get from his post.

    Moral of this whole thing is get out and train. You wont have a second chance in a real situation, why handicap yourself....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    With several other topics running with posts regarding training, 2A rights, mandated courses and so on I just wondered what others would do or think in this situation.

    You and one of your family members (wife, husband, child, mother whatever insert your own) and a friend are out eating in a restaurant. You and your friend are both carrying a weapon in any manner you see fit, CC/OC. You know your skill level what you can or cannot do with a firearm but you also know your friends skill level. He took his course that required no training, he does not shoot on his own, he has not fired his weapon in the two months since he bought it and he had no prior firearms training he just got it to get it to scare the bad guys away but he is your friend.

    You leave to go to the bathroom and you hear screams. As you exit you find your family member has been taken hostage by a gun wielding robber. You are not in any position to take the any shot in anyway but your friend is. He is standing 7 yards from the gunman with his weapon out shakingly pointing it at the head of the gunman and your family member.

    What do you do? What do you want your friend to do? Remember the last time you two went shooting on the range? He shot out the overhead light while drawing from his holster but he is practicing his 2A rights. How much is that liberty worth to you right now?

    It’s hard to play with the rules you have set out, like the friend that doesn’t shoot, and just how does one shoot the lights out from drawing from a holster? I just can’t see that happing, but I will say this for those that say it can’t happen to them.

    After all the reason we carry is for the worse case scenario isn’t it?

    Coming out of the bathroom I would draw and approach as calmly I could, as not to startle the BG. Coming into the picture, I would strongly advise him to stop what he is doing, as it will only end badly for him. At the same time tell friend to lower his gun, and do my best to maneuver into a position where I can get a shot.
    (And yes I have no doubt I can hit where I want at that distance, I have shot card edges at 10 yards)

    Mean while try to convince him that if he will just let whoever he has go I will let him go, while guaranteeing him that if any harm comes to his hostage he will not live, and if he doesn’t make a decision soon the cops will be here, and they won’t be likely to give him the same offer .

    I know sounds like tough talk don’t it.

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