Your friends course of action?

This is a discussion on Your friends course of action? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I also believe the best course of action is to defuse the situation. From experience hitting a bad guy with a hostage in front is ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array kwoodford's Avatar
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    I also believe the best course of action is to defuse the situation. From experience hitting a bad guy with a hostage in front is high risk shot. I've had some training in this type of scenario and although I do think I am much better than average shot I still hit the hostage on a regular basis....this from a holstered weapon while in uniform. Unless I could get cover and a support...as one poster said...verbal judo is your friend.
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  3. #32
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    I would likely tell my friend to stand down. I would walk my way into position(if possible without endangering innocents) with gun in hand. I would tell the perp that that is my family member and if she gets hurt, you die. I would also tell him he is free to leave peaceably.

    Now, where is my Oscar?

  4. #33
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    OK real answer with the benefit of being behind my desk and not in the real situation.

    I don't think I would draw right away. I want the BG concentrating on my shaky friend with the gun. Hopefully I can get into a position to put him to sleep (for good) but until then I keep my ace in the hole. I try to look as non threatening as possible until I have a make-able shot.

    This may sound silly to some but I've played a ton of paintball at a very high level. I've been in thousands of gunfights using paint and the biggest thing that I learned in all those years of shooting people was this: It's easier to shoot someone when they aren't looking at you.
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  5. #34
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    Use my cell phone to call the emergency number for my Insurance agent and increase the amount of my wifes life insurance policy
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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCrulesU View Post
    Speculation is nothing more than fantasy. No one here, who hasn't been put in that exact REAL LIFE scenerio, can say what he/she would do. Mock scenerios and all the backyard training in the world can't prepare you for the real thing.
    I Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm sure the last thing on your mind is going to be some similar senario that you read on the internet.

  7. #36
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    Has Anyone had a talk with their S/O about this situation and maybe doing something like the following? I haven't researched this at all, so there may be some serious flaws in it, but it just popped up in my head when Lima was talking about already having this discussion with her husband.

    But how would it play out if the family member in the choke hold were to literally just go "limp" while in the choke-hold? Whether the family member is a 200lb guy or a 140lb woman, the BG would have a seriously difficult time keeping that person held up with one arm as a "shield". My thought the family member would either fall and break loose from the choke-hold, and thereby becoming almost completely out of the way of shot placement to BG, or the BG would still hold on and end up bending over trying to go keep the family member held up. Which again would still give a huge improvement to shot placement?

    Off the top of my head, you and your spouse could have a code word/phrase when it was time to do that. Like if my wife wanted to let me know just before she did it she could say "I'm feeling sick/feint/light-headed" out loud, then just drop. or if I felt it was time for her to drop, I could say "I think she's passing out" to the BG, and then she drops.

  8. #37
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    ^^^I like Shughes^^^^^^^^

    Idea..

    OR:

    Hope my friend does his impersonation of Barney Fife, and shoots the Chandelier above BG's head, and it dropping him like a sack o'taters.
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  9. #38
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    I have no friends like yours
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  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    If I shoot through the hostages shoulder would it immobilize the bad guy? Do I have any stun grenades?

  11. #40
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    Shoot friend first, then shoot hostage to remove from the equation. Once you have a clear shoot, take out BG.
    Last edited by JD; November 12th, 2011 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Rules

  12. #41
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    There are HRT and SWAT shooters out there that can shoot the pants off any "10-yard-card-edge shooter;" some with handguns, all with long guns, and who have killed folks in real life, who would not take the shot until the muzzle was off of the hostage.

    Verbal Judo, defuse the situation if possible. Clear shot, to me, means gun off the hostage.
    It could be worse.
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    Harryball when I get back from across the water be listening for a Harley to pull up in your driveway as it will be me with the best bottle of whatever you drink in my hand.

    Gents the point of all this was not for you to try to figure out how to take out the bad guy the point was/is to train, get your friends to train, get there friends to train. We can all sit here and say I would, I could do this because we have control of what we can do and we know our own skill level but what if that control is taken away from us and we are forced to be a spectator to the situation. What was before my friends choice not to train or increase his skillset because it is his life not mine, and his constitutional right to carry without any training or knowing how to shoot, well guess what his skillset and level of training has now been forced upon you and there is not a damn thing you can do to increase it right now.

    For those that said basically it is all fantasy unless you have done it you are correct, but it is better to fantasize about it now and try to work a solution than to wait until the time comes and try to figure it all out from scratch at that time. It is called preparation. But you do what you want but going by what you stated there is no reason to fire my weapon before having to use it in a real life situation because it is all fantasy up to that point anyway. Yeah ok.

    Finally to the person who stated "How could someone shoot out an overhead light on a draw" I have seen people shoot the bench in front of them, overhead lights on an indoor range, the ground in front of them, their own range bag and so on without even including drawing from the holster people do stupid things when not trained properly.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #43
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Harryball when I get back from across the water be listening for a Harley to pull up in your driveway as it will be me with the best bottle of whatever you drink in my hand.

    Gents the point of all this was not for you to try to figure out how to take out the bad guy the point was/is to train, get your friends to train, get there friends to train. We can all sit here and say I would, I could do this because we have control of what we can do and we know our own skill level but what if that control is taken away from us and we are forced to be a spectator to the situation. What was before my friends choice not to train or increase his skillset because it is his life not mine, and his constitutional right to carry without any training or knowing how to shoot, well guess what his skillset and level of training has now been forced upon you and there is not a damn thing you can do to increase it right now.

    For those that said basically it is all fantasy unless you have done it you are correct, but it is better to fantasize about it now and try to work a solution than to wait until the time comes and try to figure it all out from scratch at that time. It is called preparation. But you do what you want but going by what you stated there is no reason to fire my weapon before having to use it in a real life situation because it is all fantasy up to that point anyway. Yeah ok.

    Finally to the person who stated "How could someone shoot out an overhead light on a draw" I have seen people shoot the bench in front of them, overhead lights on an indoor range, the ground in front of them, their own range bag and so on without even including drawing from the holster people do stupid things when not trained properly.
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  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Gents the point of all this was not for you to try to figure out how to take out the bad guy the point was/is to train, get your friends to train, get there friends to train.
    Boy is THAT easier said than done.

    I've offered free classes to people I care about just to get them started and still get turned down.

    Some people just don't care.

    As one individual told me, "I did what was required to get my permit. School's out."

    You can't make someone train.

  16. #45
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    Lima and the sad part is that is becoming the trend. Just enough to get by to get what I want and then not go any further. I have a gun bad guys run in fear which turns into us saying "Oh crap Bill is carrying today, lets get a to go plate".

    We say well that is up to them, it does not affect me, it is there right, all true statements until something like this happens and we are the spectator and have no say so and we are now relying on the other guys skill level to protect us or someone we care about or what if our friend is by himself? Do we assume the guilt if he is gunned down or misses the shot and hits someone else because we know he could not survive the encounter? We are our brothers keepers folks when it comes to this subject, now how far we jump into this is an individual choice.

    So what can we do? Keep offering the free classes, take this type friend to shoot, buy/loan them a set of training dvd's, sit them down and talk to them. "I know this is awkward but you really need to do more with your training before you hurt yourself or someone else" "It is really straining our friendship".

    I realize that even then some will still not go to classes, not watch the dvd's, or go shooting so now if you choose to be around them you have to increase your skill level, your SA, your mindset as you have now adopted a muppet with a gun and when you are around them you become their protector should you choose to do so.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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