C-Store Robbery - Shots Fired

This is a discussion on C-Store Robbery - Shots Fired within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by WillyNilly Once he fired his gun there's no negotiations. Say nothing and put him down now. BINGO! He drew the line....

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Thread: C-Store Robbery - Shots Fired

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillyNilly View Post
    Once he fired his gun there's no negotiations. Say nothing and put him down now.


    BINGO! He drew the line.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    you know after thinking about it, I would't just throw a grenade, I would throw a grenade to cover my retreat and call for CAS
    now we're talking.

  4. #18
    Member Array aworldexport's Avatar
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    Amazing..guy comes in shooting robbing the clerk and some folks want to engage him in conversation? You want to trade shots with this guy? cause thats what will happen. the scenario is he doesnt know your their and now suddenly you are there you think you will not be trading shots?..sorry but the only shots going down range will be mine. By coming in shooting this guy has taken over the store and everyone in there is a hostage.As for the folks who would do nothing but use their cell phone why carry at all? I've been a store clerk before and i would want anyone anyone to help take this guy down and take him down fast. Sorry but i am not willing to sit by and do nothing while a person is murdered in front of me.That is a big reason why i carry.I know im not a cop but i could be the clerks only chance at life.Ive seen video of folks who laid down and complied with gunmen only to end up being excuted one by one on the guys way out the door.I just dont get this yell to the guy and if he turns i shoot buisness.You still may trade shots with the guy. forget that...

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I thought we had done this before?

    several, many, times


    Quote Originally Posted by aworldexport View Post
    Amazing.. As for the folks who would do nothing but use their cell phone why carry at all?...
    To protect me and mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by aworldexport View Post
    Sorry but i am not willing to sit by and do nothing while a person is murdered in front of me....
    Good, great, glad that you have such a big heart and the wallet to support it. That said no one is getting murdered, this scenario: he is wearing a mask he has no intention but to intimidate with the firearm.

    Quote Originally Posted by aworldexport View Post
    That is a big reason why i carry.I know im not a cop but i could be the clerks only chance at life.
    Not in this situation as described, he has concealed his identity so he doesn't need to shoot the clerk. If he is a wacked out crack head and does shoot the clerk then, and only then, I am in fear for my life and will respond with the necessary force to reduce the threat.

    In closing the situation as posed is one where the use of force is completely optional and possibly justified; do not try to force others to your point of view or expect us to justify your super hero complex.
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

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  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
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    No doubt it's a reality TV show, probably "Punked" or "Candid Camera". You want to play a hero on TV, so you walk over to the BG and slap him in the kisser, knowing he has blanks in the toy gun, then disarm him, do a 180 and smile toward where you think the hidden cameras are located.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    you know after thinking about it, I would't just throw a grenade, I would throw a grenade to cover my retreat and call for CAS
    Warthogs take out convenience store - details at 11:00 :)
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    you know after thinking about it, I would't just throw a grenade, I would throw a grenade to cover my retreat and call for CAS
    Option 1

    If JTAC wasn't responding to my radio requests, I'd probably pop smoke then toss my backup to my 6 year old daughter and tell her to remember what Daddy taught her when we went over TTP's. Then, I'd have her lay down cover as I made my way through, grabbing the smokes, Starbucks DoubleShot and the Twizzlers I originally came for. While making my retreat and the smoke is starting to clear, I'd fire one very well placed shot from 15 meters to the brainstem, immediately incapacitating him so there's no involuntary contraction of the muscles resulting in him squeezing off a round or two on his way to the ground.

    After that, I'd just smile for the cameras and during my 4th voluntary television interview I'd say, "I'm no hero and I don't want any attention or praise, I was just a man at the wrong place at the wrong time, doing what any man would have done in my situation", while gladly and proudly accepting the key to the city from our mayor at a cemermony in my honor.

    Option 2

    When reality kicked in and I finally realized what the heck was happening from the back of the store while the bad guy was running out, I'd probably call 911 and wait for LE to arrive.

    Seeing as something like 97% of these robberies end in nobody getting hurt, I'd probably be ready to do whatever was necessary, but also use my head and not take a life, as worthless as his probably is, if I don't have too. Though if I do have to, he's going down hard. After shooting a bad guy, it's not always high fives and rainbows.

    When bad things happen, we will rarely find ourselves in any situation even remotely similar to what we've played out in our heads. I've been in a few very bad situations during normal day to day life, two requiring a full commitment to fire my weapon. When discussing these things online, one of the biggest problems I see is we expect bad guys to behave a certain way.

    A buddy of mine that owns an AR accessory company that makes well known slings and light mounts/hand stops, etc. used to work armed security. There was a incident at a truck stop/convenience store and two guys come running out of the store, me with a gun. They both get into a pickup and they drive wildly near gas pumps heading straight for the other armed security guard. Even with a lot of range time and firearms training (not tactics or scenario TRAINING, just firearms training) unloads into the windshield of the pickup. The truck then turns towards my buddy and he can clearly see the driver who is net on running him over to make his exit. He fires to well placed shots, ending the situation and any chance this guy may commit another crime. Both occupants of the vehicle were killed instantly.

    Turns out, the guy in the passenger seat was an innocent customer who tried to stop the bad guy. He was killed by the partner. They were both arrested and charged with manslaughter, though deeper into the investigation it proved my buddy did the right thing. His charges were dropped. Eventually, the other guy either did get a minimal sentence or his charges were dropped, I don't recall.

    So, unless we are absolutely FORCED to fire, my suggested and preferred course of action would be to stay calm and stay quiet. I would WANT to light him up. I would WANT to put my foot down because of sick of animals taking whatever they want. I NEED to think it through and default to training, not what I think might be the right thing to do. I NEED to know how to handle this or take no action at all, as unmanly as that sounds.

    Believe me, if it seemed there would be violence, I'd do what I had to do to protect myself and my loved ones, but sometimes it's best to shut up and stay still. There's a 2% chance, at best, that he'll shoot the clerk. Those odds are higher than I'd like, but they are what they are and I need to take that into consideration. If he wants to move anyone to a second location (like a back room, for example) the odds of him becoming violent increase exponentially and it's time to act.

    These threads are always hard because unless you're n the situation, we have no clue what might happen. So, I will always default to doing nothing more than I HAVE to. Would I want to shoot him in the back of the head? Sure would. Under Texas law, would I be justified in my actions? Pretty positive I would be. There have been a lot of robberies of stores here lately and only one or two ended in violence, and that was a beating. Unfortunate, but at least no one died.

    I'm not saying we should comply with every command. I am saying we should be careful with what we do, choose each and every action wisely and seek out training that deals with decision making and force on force if we really believe we'll ever possibly be in any life threatening situation and we really believe we'll do anything about it.

    I NEED to get home at the end of the day.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I'd throw smoke then toss my backup to my 6 year old daughter and tell her to remember what Daddy taught her when we went over TTP's. Then, I'd have her lay down cover as I made my way through, grabbing the smokes, Starbucks DoubleShot and the Twizzlers I originally came for. While making my retreat and the snake is starting to clear, I'd place one well placed shot from 15 meters to the brainstorm, immediately incapacitating him so there's no involuntary contraction of the muscles resulting in him squeezing off a round or two on his way to the ground.

    After that, I'd just smile for the cameras and during my 4th voluntary television interview I'd say, "I'm no hero and I don't want any attention or praise, I was just a man at the wrong place at the wrong time, doing what any man would have done in my situation."
    Yeah Baby!


    . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Seeing as something like 97% of these robberies end in nobody getting hurt, I'd probably be ready to do whatever was necessary, but also use my head and not take a life, as worthless as his probably is, if I don't have too. Though if I do have to, he's going down hard. After shooting a bad guy, it's not always high fives and rainbows.
    Of course, compliance doesn't always work... Story from last year (in fact, tomorrow is the anniversary).

    I actually didn't recall the Travis scene linked above from Taxi Driver. And, while we've "done this before" as someone pointed out.. (and the motion was seconded)... I still like it for a course of action.

    I simply don't like taking the shot while the BG's gun is trained on a victim.

    As far as the mask being a reason for him not pulling the trigger to eliminate the witness, it also means the video tape won't be a reliable witness to the committed murder.

    Some criminals, uncaught, escalate their criminal behavior over time. Some, like the one in the link I posted above, try to get a running start...
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  10. #24
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    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

    -Will Rogers

    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post

    Of course, compliance doesn't always work... Story from last year (in fact, tomorrow is the anniversary).

    I actually didn't recall the Travis scene linked above from Taxi Driver. And, while we've "done this before" as someone pointed out.. (and the motion was seconded)... I still like it for a course of action.

    I simply don't like taking the shot while the BG's gun is trained on a victim.
    Of course not. Just to be clear, and you regulars may now this about me, I'm the last person to ever recommend compliance. I tried it once and it almost got me killed. Fortunately, I got tired of complying before they were done.

    What I meant in my previous post, under normal circumstances, it would most likely be best to sit tight and not do anything unless forced. Sure, I'd want to shoot the guy and though lawful here in Texas in those situations, I'd likely not shoot until there's a sign of increased aggression (though sometimes they shoot on a whim) or he tries to move us. It's a gamble, and not an easy one. Training of course will make a difference. Some of us may not read people well at all, others may be FBi profilers and can tell my a simple facial twitch what he's going to do next. Luckily there's usually a tell that he'll give off before he makes a move. Can we spot it is the question...

    Now, I wouldn't fault anyone for dropping the dirtbag from behind with a clean shot to the head, I'm just not sure it's necessary in your "average" robbery. Better believe I'd be ready to and who knows, maybe I'd just drop him when he first drew the gun. It's impossible to tell, so that's why I would suggest doing nothing until you can get a better read on the situation, if possible.

    Being alone, with a buddy or with my wife/children would also make a huge difference in my decision.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  12. #26
    Member Array aworldexport's Avatar
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    To protect me and mine.

    A sad selfish statement. Thank God there are people out there willing to help a fellow human being survive an attack.


    Good, great, glad that you have such a big heart and the wallet to support it. That said no one is getting murdered, this scenario: he is wearing a mask he has no intention but to intimidate with the firearm.

    Oh what a relief the guy has a mask on all is well i am so glad you are able to read the minds of robbers who wear masks. Where did you come up with that brilliant statistic? Hey everyone in the store the guy shoots off his gun coming into the store but alas!!!! hes wearing a mask..have no fear hes really only trying to intimidate everyone you just dont bother yourself any..

    Not in this situation as described, he has concealed his identity so he doesn't need to shoot the clerk. If he is a wacked out crack head and does shoot the clerk then, and only then, I am in fear for my life and will respond with the necessary force to reduce the threat.

    Oh he doesnt "need" to shoot the clerk he has a mask on..Oh ok glad you cleared that up after all robbers with masks never harm anyone.. Great person you are act only when the poor clerk has a hole in their head. What a heartless uncaring selfish citizen you are. I hope when your in trouble nobody comes to your aid hope they just let you fend for yourself..Oh right, you are armed only to for your own super-hero defense...


    In closing the situation as posed is one where the use of force is completely optional and possibly justified; do not try to force others to your point of view or expect us to justify your super hero complex.

    Super hero complex? you have to be kidding me that is how you see coming to the aid of another human being? Are you a super-hero defending your own life? or are you like the rest of us an ordinary person in an extraordinary situation?

    Who was trying to force anyone to my point of view? i just gave my point of view. Boy you are such a great mind reader you should change your handle to "Swammy" the great mind reader.

    I pray there arent alot of people out there like you..

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aworldexport View Post
    snip...
    Next time, could you quote the person's text so we see what you're responding to. I was getting confused there for a minute….

    EDIT - I went back and saw what you were replying too. I just wasn't 100% on what was yours or someone else's. I'm still not sure, but I think I get it!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  14. #28
    Member Array aworldexport's Avatar
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    Sorry tried, but wasnt able to post it properly..I will try and do better next time..

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aworldexport View Post
    Sorry tried, but wasnt able to post it properly..I will try and do better next time..
    Oh, no problem man. It's a pain to quote and reply to multiple points. The best thing to do is copy the quotation commands then past them around the text you want to separate. Still a pain though. If it's all from the same person, put an end quote after the first part, then highlight and click the QUOTE command for every other section you want to separate which is pretty quick once you get the hang of it.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Regardless of what I would or would not do, the fact that someone entered the store firing a weapon, in the great state of Texas, we're well justified in ending that obvious threat. I would be ready and willing to put him down but that's not always the best action. Sometimes we need to just let them do their thing and be on their way.

    He may be a scared kid needing money for food, some worthless, useless suck-on-life meth tweaker that shouldn't exist in the first place, or some pyscho that wants to see what it's like to kill someone. We don't know and honestly it doesn't matter. I'm just making that statement because we have no clue who it is or how they might act.

    Remember that case a few years back where those three or four teenagers decided to rob a gas station then kill the two ladies that worked there by beating them to death. One got away after they were arguing who would get to kill her, but the other one didn't. In that case, the rubbery itself seemed to be a secondary motive with the thrill killing being the primary motive.

    People are sick and we have no clue who we're dealing with. S, we need to be ready and WILLING to do whatever is necessary so we make it home at the end of the day.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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