Followed Home After Bar Altercation

This is a discussion on Followed Home After Bar Altercation within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey Mad: You cannot understand what this thread has to do with drinking? The group of guys are drinking. The writer's scanario has him upsetting ...

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Thread: Followed Home After Bar Altercation

  1. #61
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Hey Mad: You cannot understand what this thread has to do with drinking? The group of guys are drinking. The writer's scanario has him upsetting these guys (i guess it is because he began reading from Shakespeare and not from drinking)--and you still do not understand what this thread has to do with drinking. It is a classic drinking scenario with a bunch of irresponsible people with at least one them having a firearm; this thread scenario never sounded like a little social gathering of you and some friends having a glass of wine or a beer and just listening to music or watching a game on TV. Even then, what you call a "slight buzz" can get you in a great deal of trouble if the perfect storm puts you under investigation because of an "incident" while you are CC. In SC, for example, you cannot CC if you enter an establishment (restaurant or bar) that serves alcohol--so any "incident" will give you a problem legally (misdemeanor) and civilly (lots of money).

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  3. #62
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey Mad: You cannot understand what this thread has to do with drinking? The group of guys are drinking. The writer's scanario has him upsetting these guys (i guess it is because he began reading from Shakespeare and not from drinking)--and you still do not understand what this thread has to do with drinking. It is a classic drinking scenario with a bunch of irresponsible people with at least one them having a firearm; this thread scenario never sounded like a little social gathering of you and some friends having a glass of wine or a beer and just listening to music or watching a game on TV. Even then, what you call a "slight buzz" can get you in a great deal of trouble if the perfect storm puts you under investigation because of an "incident" while you are CC. In SC, for example, you cannot CC if you enter an establishment (restaurant or bar) that serves alcohol--so any "incident" will give you a problem legally (misdemeanor) and civilly (lots of money).
    I am not sure what you mean by the "classic drinking scenario with a bunch of irresponsible people". Perhaps you were more exposed to this "classic" scenario than I was. My classic drinking scenario has me walking down to the pub for a few beers to watch the game or listen to live music. I believe I stated I do not carry when I am imbibing in public. So, your "perfect storm" scenario will never include me pulling out my firearm after having consumed alcohol.

    Teetotalers and neo-Prohibitionists love to portray those who drink as irresponsible drunks. While campaigning for Prohibition from the latter half of the nineteenth century until the passage of the 20th Amendment, the religious zealots and activists had the mainstream media of their time supporting them by doing just that. I was like a constant stream of Reefer Madness-style propaganda until they achieved their goal.

    I noticed there is a tendency even on this board to assign specious motives to people the posters don't even know. For example, one guy was posting about being harrassed by some guys in a truck. Was he able to get a Breath-a-lyzer test on them before making that accusation? I'm not saying they were innocent, but I like to point out that if you don't KNOW, then it's simply conjecture on your part, filtered by your personal prejudices.

  4. #63
    Member Array eaglefrq's Avatar
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    Not to jack this thread, but this could be applied to anything.

    I used to be a bartender/manager and one night I was giving one of the waitresses a ride home after closing. There was a truck sitting at a red light with his right blinker on. We waited for about 30 seconds and I noticed he had out of state plates, so I was thinking maybe his state was a no right on red. I honked the horn once (short) and he put his truck in park and sat there. I waited another 30 seconds or so and then pulled around him and turned right. As I pulled around him, he put it in drive and started following me. I was leery of taking her home with him following us, but she told me to go ahead. As I pulled into Melissa's driveway, he turned on a side street, so I thought it was a coincidence. Until I noticed that he was sitting there in the middle of the street. Once Melissa was in the house, I backed up and started heading out of town on my way home. He started following me again, this time speeding up and slowing down behind me. I never altered my speed, but was talking with my wife. I decided if he continued to follow me, I was going to call the sheriffs office and tell them what was going on and as for help.

    He eventually got tired of his games and turned around and went back to town. Yes, I did have my CC as well as pepper spray.

    There are lessons learned in every scenario. I hadn't been drinking because we had just closed and I was on my way home. It was around 1am, so I don't know if he was/had been drinking but I can only assume yes, based on his actions.

    My lessons learned were:
    1. Don't go home
    2. Don't play their silly games and escalate the situation.

    I think if I had responded by getting out of the truck initially or brake checking him it would have escalated the situation into a fight or deadly force needed since I didn't know how many were in the truck. Instead, by driving normal and ignoring him he got tired and left.

  5. #64
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglefrq View Post
    It was around 1am, so I don't know if he was/had been drinking but I can only assume yes, based on his actions.
    So, you think it makes sense to assume someone has been drinking based on the time of day and a traffic infraction? You have proved my point.

  6. #65
    Member Array eaglefrq's Avatar
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    Yes, I will make this assumption based on this incident. I will a couple of additional details that I didn't feel were relevant to the story.

    This is a small town where we are the latest business open. The other businesses including restaurants and bars close around 10pm, with the exception of 7-11. However, 7-11 can't sell beer after midnight, due to state laws. He may have very well been in the restaurant drinking. He may have been at home drinking. He may not have been drinking at all, he was just wanting to be an *****.

    That's why I said "assume". We all know what assumptions are anyway. He was on the main road in town, sitting for an extended period of time. He was sitting at the light as we were approaching the intersection. So, I know for a fact he was sitting there for at least 1 minute, because that's how long I was stopped behind him.

    And, I enjoy going out with friends and having a drink while enjoying good company, music or food. I don't frequent places that have reputations for people drinking and causing problems. There are bars that over serve people, when it's obvious they need to be cut off.

    From my experiences, alcohol does lower inhibitions and cause people to make dumb decisions.

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sureshot1 View Post
    Hope you weren't in the bar armed !! If it was me, ( I am 72 ) and there were 3 drunks following me shouting threats, I know that in my mind I would think that they had every intent to do me bodily harm, therefore because I don't just carry for the fun of it, I would display my weapon, maybe depending on the location fire 1 shot in the ground, never pointing the pistol at them, then tell them to get lost or let the games begin. At 72 I'm to old for kind of crap. PS. This has happened once to me, lucky for the duffes, he got out of dodge, and I never heard any more about it. Note back then I didn't have a CC permit, and lived in WIsconsin.

    Unfortunalty you can no be charged with assault with a deadly weapon! If the DA thinks that they did not intend to harm you, you better have a good lawyer! It doesn't matter that you claim you aimed at the ground, their lawyer's (if all three get laywers you may have to defend against three assault charges) are going to argue that you were drunk and therefore luckily missed their clients.

    This is going to be real expensive!

  8. #67
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglefrq View Post
    Yes, I will make this assumption based on this incident. I will a couple of additional details that I didn't feel were relevant to the story.

    This is a small town where we are the latest business open. The other businesses including restaurants and bars close around 10pm, with the exception of 7-11. However, 7-11 can't sell beer after midnight, due to state laws. He may have very well been in the restaurant drinking. He may have been at home drinking. He may not have been drinking at all, he was just wanting to be an *****.

    That's why I said "assume". We all know what assumptions are anyway. He was on the main road in town, sitting for an extended period of time. He was sitting at the light as we were approaching the intersection. So, I know for a fact he was sitting there for at least 1 minute, because that's how long I was stopped behind him.

    And, I enjoy going out with friends and having a drink while enjoying good company, music or food. I don't frequent places that have reputations for people drinking and causing problems. There are bars that over serve people, when it's obvious they need to be cut off.

    From my experiences, alcohol does lower inhibitions and cause people to make dumb decisions.
    I'm not arguing any of that. Just saying that assuming someone is drunk based on the time of day, size of town, unusual actions, etc. is not good SA. Perhaps he was very sharp and calculating. So, if you don't actually know if he was drunk, saying he was probably drunk is simply poor SA.

    By saying that, you are now attributing his actions to alcohol inebriation, thus creating a framework for you to account for his actions. ...and you may be completely wrong.

  9. #68
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I'm not arguing any of that. Just saying that assuming someone is drunk based on the time of day, size of town, unusual actions, etc. is not good SA. Perhaps he was very sharp and calculating. So, if you don't actually know if he was drunk, saying he was probably drunk is simply poor SA.

    By saying that, you are now attributing his actions to alcohol inebriation, thus creating a framework for you to account for his actions. ...and you may be completely wrong.
    Your right, it is poor SA to make assumptions about someone's behavior. At the same time, when dealing with a raging "jerk", it is oftentimes helps, psychologically speaking, to attribute their actions to drunkenness or some other factor as part of a self control methodology.

  10. #69
    Member Array eaglefrq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I'm not arguing any of that. Just saying that assuming someone is drunk based on the time of day, size of town, unusual actions, etc. is not good SA. Perhaps he was very sharp and calculating. So, if you don't actually know if he was drunk, saying he was probably drunk is simply poor SA.

    By saying that, you are now attributing his actions to alcohol inebriation, thus creating a framework for you to account for his actions. ...and you may be completely wrong.
    I actually, attributed the initial action to the out of state license plates and possible different traffic laws. Then, when he put it in park and sat there, is when my SA went up, because I felt he was looking for trouble. I didn't assume he had been drinking until after the fact and was replaying the incident at home. Also, just because someone has been drinking doesn't mean they are drunk.

    Playing the MMQ, is it possible that alcohol may have been a factor due to all the events previously mentioned, Yes, it's possible. I know people that can have one drink and turn into a jerk that is looking for a fight.

    Unless I missed it in your previous posts, it sounded like you were upset because people were blaming drinking for all the trouble. I didn't see anything where you were talking about using the drinking aspect to influence your decisions and lower your SA. I agree with your above quote.

  11. #70
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglefrq View Post
    I actually, attributed the initial action to the out of state license plates and possible different traffic laws. Then, when he put it in park and sat there, is when my SA went up, because I felt he was looking for trouble. I didn't assume he had been drinking until after the fact and was replaying the incident at home. Also, just because someone has been drinking doesn't mean they are drunk.

    Playing the MMQ, is it possible that alcohol may have been a factor due to all the events previously mentioned, Yes, it's possible. I know people that can have one drink and turn into a jerk that is looking for a fight.

    Unless I missed it in your previous posts, it sounded like you were upset because people were blaming drinking for all the trouble. I didn't see anything where you were talking about using the drinking aspect to influence your decisions and lower your SA. I agree with your above quote.
    This is an internet discussion board. I am certainly not "upset".

    Historically on the board, there are many people who assume that acohol consumption turns everyone into a jerk. The only places I see those prejudices so frequently are in the US and Islamic countries. You don't encounter those assumptions in Europe, Asia, or Africa. I am not saying it is wrong, just commenting on the prevailing mindet of some that prejudices their decision making.

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