Swinging Baseball Bat at You = Deadly Force Threat?

This is a discussion on Swinging Baseball Bat at You = Deadly Force Threat? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I played with this scenario some this morning. Will do some more on Wed. It is interesting. Psychobubba charging and swinging like a wild man ...

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Thread: Swinging Baseball Bat at You = Deadly Force Threat?

  1. #91
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    I played with this scenario some this morning. Will do some more on Wed. It is interesting.
    Psychobubba charging and swinging like a wild man is tough to deal with.

    I'm bringing head gear Wed. Today, without head gear I charged in and blocked with my off hand while attempting a belly shot with my rt hand. The results were predictable. The gun hand got grabbed or knocked away from COM.

    Trying to pedal backwards and away or sideways while reaching for a weapon in a pocket doesn't allow enough speed to outdistance the attacker.

    Fun and games.

    More later as I play with this and learn.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  3. #92
    3D [OP]
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    Hey Hopyard take a look at this! ...... AIKIDO VERSUS BASEBALL BAT - YouTube

    I personally don't think one can disarm him of the bat AND draw AND shoot all at the same time.

    Like most others have said .. A,O,J are all satisfied with assailant's first swing. If time, distance and circumstances allow----> zipper ... bang bang bang bang.

    By the way, if you do disarm him of the bat you may negate A, O, J.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3D View Post
    Hey Hopyard take a look at this! ...... AIKIDO VERSUS BASEBALL BAT - YouTube

    I personally don't think one can disarm him of the bat AND draw AND shoot all at the same time.

    Like most others have said .. A,O,J are all satisfied with assailant's first swing. If time, distance and circumstances allow----> zipper ... bang bang bang bang.

    By the way, if you do disarm him of the bat you may negate A, O, J.

    Yes, of course you can't do both at the same time.

    Haven't had a chance to look at the vid you linked to. My point was that even if you manage to charge in to defeat the momentum and attempt to take a shot, your opponent (if he has the bat by one hand still has a free hand to grab to your gun and knock it off COM. Therefore it might be better to attempt the disarm than to even pull the gun. And of course, once you have the bat, no bang or you will end up behind bars.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  5. #94
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    You come at me with a bat that you are attempting to swing at me and I have no where to go (which is always the best option) I yell loudly for witnesses and tell you to back away from me," I do not want any trouble". I am in imminent danger--you continue I keeel you.
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  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3D View Post
    Hey Hopyard take a look at this! ...... AIKIDO VERSUS BASEBALL BAT - YouTube

    I personally don't think one can disarm him of the bat AND draw AND shoot all at the same time.

    Like most others have said .. A,O,J are all satisfied with assailant's first swing. If time, distance and circumstances allow----> zipper ... bang bang bang bang.

    By the way, if you do disarm him of the bat you may negate A, O, J.
    Yes to the vid. Very nice. I think going for the block and disarm, and if you can manage it, the throws as in the video, might actually work better than trying to shoot or disorient with pepper--- but, it is still a really scary difficult attack to counter when Psychobubba is swinging full speed and in unpredictable patterns. Very dangerous no matter how you try to defend. Thanks for the vid. link.
    Last edited by Hopyard; November 25th, 2011 at 03:31 PM.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Yes to the vid. Very nice. I think going for the block and disarm, and if you can manage, it the throws as in the video, might actually work better than trying to shoot or disorient with pepper--- but, it is still a really scary difficult attack to counter when Psychobubba is swinging full speed and in unpredictable patterns. Very dangerous no matter how you try to defend. Thanks for the vid. link.
    That's not the way I was taught. We move in AFTER the first swing...which generally is the stronger swing...and catch the "rebound"...or back swing....then perform technique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    That's not the way I was taught. We move in AFTER the first swing...which generally is the stronger swing...and catch the "rebound"...or back swing....then perform technique.
    Whatever works.

    Its still a matter of timing. If you are being charged by the bat wielder, or have your back against something, you might not have the ability to let it go on by.

    Situations are always so variable, you can't be dogmatic about it, nor can I--- do what seems like it is necessary in the instant and hope it works.

    If I let it go by, I'd be trying to move in for a choke or a rearward throw.

    ADDED LATER-- AFTER A WALK AND TIME TO THINK

    mrjam2jab, if you let the bat go by won't the BG just use the momentum to carry him around and take another swing and you are back at square one? And if you step in just as the bat goes past, don't you risk a back hand with the bat too?

    I can see letting the bat go by and using that moment to step back and away and shoot or spray pepper, but whether or not you can pull that off--as with all counters to this type of attack--- is highly dependent on timing, speed, agility, coordination.

    Again, this is a great scenario that folks can play with in their minds and also easily (being slow and cautious) in a back yard with a bud to work with you. There is no single best answer. Try a bunch of approaches and see what works for you as an individual.

    *PS If anyone decides to practice something like this, keep in mind what an Arnis instructor told his class at the start. "Remember, you are all friends and relatives." Lose track of that while practicing and someone will get hurt.
    Last edited by Hopyard; November 25th, 2011 at 05:34 PM.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  9. #98
    3D [OP]
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    The outside of the arc is where the greatest velocity is. I would stay away from there.
    Enter the center before the bat gets to you and rotate in the same direction as the asailant only slightly faster than he is turning so that you are leading him.
    This is all tooooooo academic.
    None of that works if the guy uses the bat like a pool cue and thrusts the end of it two-handed into your throat, nose, face etc, etc.

    I am a firm believer in the 'big-bang' theory.
    [ or as i said earlier....bang, bang, bang, bang ]
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3D View Post
    The outside of the arc is where the greatest velocity is. I would stay away from there.
    Enter the center before the bat gets to you and rotate in the same direction as the asailant only slightly faster than he is turning so that you are leading him.
    This is all tooooooo academic.
    None of that works if the guy uses the bat like a pool cue and thrusts the end of it two-handed into your throat, nose, face etc, etc.

    I am a firm believer in the 'big-bang' theory.
    [ or as i said earlier....bang, bang, bang, bang ]
    The problem with the big bang theory is you may never get a chance to pull and fire. Then again you may.

    As you say this is all too academic. The only way to know what will or won't work (for you) is to get on it in practice sessions-- keeping it safe of course with appropriate protective gear and a modicum of good sense.

    See what actually happens in various scenarios.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  11. #100
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    Someone I went to high school with was shot and killed by a local cop who was not charged and the family never sued.

    A hit in the head by a bat can be absolutely fatal, don't kid yourself otherwise. And, if you shoot him in the leg and he still smashes your noggin in what good have you done?
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  12. #101
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    The video is pretty good, but I would like to see what happens when the BG is acting like a BG. I know you practice slow to commit responses to memory and develop muscle memory but how about you give the BG a pool noodle or wiffle bat and tell him to "kill" the GG. Then when the bat wielder is not predictable see how many blows to the head, ribs, arms or legs the teacher takes. Plus add in that after the first full speed blow to his arm in a blocking maneuver that arm is now useless because it is shattered etc. I did some MA back in the 80's but never went too far with it, I know it is very effective but wonder how a mid level individual would fair in this situation.
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  13. #102
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    Just to prove the reality of the deadliness of a baseball bat.........

    Florida Man Charged With Killing Couple With Bat

    Published December 04, 2011

    | Associated Press

    Print Email Share Comments Text Size MIAMI – Authorities say a North Florida man has been charged with two counts of first-degree murder after he told investigators that he beat a couple to death with a baseball bat and then photographed their bodies.

    The Hernando County Sheriff's Office said in a news release Saturday that 40-year-old Craig Arron Lede of Spring Hill is being held without bond. Authorities say he admitted killing 29-year-old John Ketsemidis and 28-year-old Dana Nelson at Lede's house on Wednesday night.

    An arrest affidavit says Lede became enraged when Ketsemidis said he couldn't repay a debt. The affidavit says Lede "stated he photographed the bodies and intended to keep the picture as a trophy because he was tired of being screwed over."

    Lede is charged with two counts of first-degree murder and one count of armed robbery. He is currently being held without bond.



    Read more: Florida Man Charged With Killing Couple With Bat | Fox News
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

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    Local retired cop heard a disturbance outside his mobile home. He went outside to see what was going on. A local miscreant was smashing windows in other mobile homes. When the retired cop ordered him to stop he turned on the cop and started toward him with the bat raised to strike a blow. The retired cop shot him to the ground. The grand jury no billed the retired cop.

    Jim

  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    The video is pretty good, but I would like to see what happens when the BG is acting like a BG. I know you practice slow to commit responses to memory and develop muscle memory but how about you give the BG a pool noodle or wiffle bat and tell him to "kill" the GG. Then when the bat wielder is not predictable see how many blows to the head, ribs, arms or legs the teacher takes. Plus add in that after the first full speed blow to his arm in a blocking maneuver that arm is now useless because it is shattered etc. I did some MA back in the 80's but never went too far with it, I know it is very effective but wonder how a mid level individual would fair in this situation.
    See, the same question could be asked about using a gun to stop the attack. How quickly can the gun be accessed; maybe it is in a pocket not OWB? How quickly can you get it on target? Can you shoot it and hit something while moving? What if it doesn't stop the bat wielder instantly?

    There is no answer to this situation except to practice some, think about responses, and do whatever works in the moment.

    I stated in my first post, "run." And I meant it.
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    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  16. #105
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    I agree, of course back to the original scenario where you are in a car and the guy starts bashing windows to get to you. I believe this would give you the time needed to draw a gun and engage, unless he comes from behind unseen. In that case you don't know he is there until the window next to your head shatters all over you. Possible to scramble to the other seat, but I would still be buckled into the seat assuming I am waiting for my wife to run in and out. Then I screwed again, gun at 4:00 seated and strapped in basher winding up for the home run shot.

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