Take your shot?

This is a discussion on Take your shot? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by oakchas So, without getting into caliber wars: What single BRAND/type of SD Ammunition would you recommend to guarantee totally destructive deadly stop ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    So, without getting into caliber wars: What single BRAND/type of SD Ammunition would you recommend to guarantee totally destructive deadly stop in brain pan or chest; through any clothing (not body armor), in any weather, on any given day, in any normal carry gun, from .32 ACP thru .45, from less than 50 feet, in the hands of any permitted shooter... (and maybe before you broadcast it as the be-all/end all solution, let me know so that I can buy stock in the company... and you might want to warn them too, they'll want to tool up.)
    I doubt that there are any commonly available weapons or ammunition that can guarantee the effect we are hoping for here. We can only do what we can to ensure the desired effect. After that it comes to hope and prayer.

    How many of you folks that come from a rural background have not seen animals being killed that are still moving around after a shot to the head. That dying quiver we all hear about is true.

    Michael

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  3. #17
    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    I just shot a woodchuck, he was straight in front of me on a pile of logs (probly looking to chuck some wood) at 50 yards. 22 mag rifle aiming for his chest as he was on all fours with his head up to look around. As the trigger broke he must have heard or seen something cause his head dropped right into the path of the bullet. He flipped and rolled for about 20-30 seconds. I guarantee I hit his MO (if woodchucks have one) since when I walked over there was no head left and the bullet still continued the length of his body with the exit wound just in front of his left rear leg. I do not believe that any shot will be guaranteed to instantly incapacitate anyone. I know that I can make the shot on a paper BG at 25 feet, but add in random movements, head turns, and the stress and adrenaline and you have an almost guaranteed miss of the Magic Spot.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    One of the problems with shooting at the back of the head with the BG between you and love one etc, is OVER PENETRATION AND YOUR OWN HAND KILLING OR WOUNDING YOUR LOVE ONE ETC.

    Better to step off line 90* and shoot the BG in ear.
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness,
    nor the arrow for its swiftness,
    nor the warrior for his glory.
    I love only that which they defend.
    -J.R.R. Tolkien

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ring View Post




    have you ever seen what a bullet will do to to a head?

    a bullet is no a laser.. it will not make a clean hole to the target...

    there is ZERO need to to hit the spot... a bullet passing threw the skull anywhere with in 2 to 4" of the target will obliterate the brain stem and cerebellum ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Ring View Post
    ahhh... she was shot with Winchester White Box FMJ 9mm... not really know for causing any extended damage,,, i local guy took 7 of these to the chest and still ran 75y before dropping dead on the curb after a failed robbery..
    Interesting. Completely argued it out against himself in a matter of two posts!
    bbqgrill, Penhall and oakchas like this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Interesting. Completely argued it out against himself in a matter of two posts!
    great observation
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

    Never argue with an idiot - they'll bring you down to their level then beat you with experience.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Interesting. Completely argued it out against himself in a matter of two posts!
    I don't hold it against him.... There are those who would call 911 and "be a good witness" and I have no problem with that either.

    For those who advocate taking the shot with the BG's finger on the trigger... I'm certain that with the correct SD round for your weapon of choice, you could almost guarantee the shot.

    But, it's the almost that gets me... I'd rather (well, if I haven't made this clear by now, I never will) draw the perp's weapon off the victim. Even at that, I can't guarantee that I'll kill the guy or completely incapacitate him... but the odds are markedly better.

    And, there's no one alive who would be foolish enough to say... "THIS is THE round that will do it! No matter your platform, no matter your angle of attack. Just point in the general vicinity, and this will destroy the brain, the stem, the whole mehgilla. And anyone who is over 21 years of age can buy it"

    Therein lies another problem; here we are, on this internet thing, a bunch of concealed carriers (for the most part). We have varying degrees of experience, training, skills, and equipment. To make a blanket statement that we should take the guy out, while we have the element of surprise, without any concern for what is beyond our target, or what is the result of our action to the BG's target, is just plain irresponsible. There are those, I'm sure, who can take the shot, and guarantee the result. But they should not advocate that anyone "packing a roscoe" should do likewise.

    Some have said I'm overthinking... I'm not. I think that all of these thoughts can be assimilated, conclusions drawn, and action taken in the same amount of time or even considerably less, than the clip of "The Travis Solution."
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I shot a man from a couple inches away and missed the important part of his head by 4 or 5 inches. He DID NOT go down immediately with that shot.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I shot a man from a couple inches away and missed the important part of his head by 4 or 5 inches. He DID NOT go down immediately with that shot.
    Its a sucks doesnt it.....Never fun
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    I just shot a woodchuck, he was straight in front of me on a pile of logs (probly looking to chuck some wood).......
    That's pretty funny!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Its a sucks doesnt it.....Never fun
    You could definitely say that...
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    You could definitely say that...
    I know Bro..Glad your still here. The elephant sucks ass. When it come calling you have no choice.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Agree that's the only sure way, but it's not the only way.... depends upon entry point, ammo, etc. as well. There are other shots that will stop somone immediately and the only muscle reaction will be spasmatic reactions if any at all.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Agree that's the only sure way, but it's not the only way.... depends upon entry point, ammo, etc. as well. There are other shots that will stop somone immediately and the only muscle reaction will be spasmatic reactions if any at all.
    I just don't want any of those spasmatic muscle reactions to be in the trigger finger of the BG while he's pointing at the clerk.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I shot a man from a couple inches away and missed the important part of his head by 4 or 5 inches. He DID NOT go down immediately with that shot.
    Why, pray tell?
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    IMO, the 'tunnel vision' thing is no more or no less likely than the reflexive tightening of the trigger finger. I think it's a large risk to shoot and assume there will be no reflexive reaction and the same large risk to assume the tunnel vision.

    I would base my actions on angle of shot and my belief at that moment if that attacker really means to shoot the clerk. My belief, how I read the situation, holds about as much water as betting on either reflex or tunnel vision....large risk.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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