Unarmed Aggressor

This is a discussion on Unarmed Aggressor within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Unarmed aggressor, to some extent, is an oxymoron. People get knocked to the ground, hit their head and die (we just had one of these ...

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Thread: Unarmed Aggressor

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Unarmed aggressor, to some extent, is an oxymoron. People get knocked to the ground, hit their head and die (we just had one of these cases in SC--not even punches but a lot of pushing and shoving among a bunch of late night drinkers.) I agree with many that being CC carries a burden that would not exist if you did not carry the ability to kill someone. It would seem that if you can manage carrying a firearm and this scenario seems to be real for you, carrying a stun or pepper spray is nothing more than a spare mag and solves the problem. My first thought, however, always comes down to situational awareness (SA) and even, G-d forbid, retreat, apology or even kiss ass. Maybe I am fortunate and I have said this many times on forums---I am 70 years old (actually today) and I HAVE NEVER FOUND MYSELF IN ANY WHAT IFS WHATSOEVER. Personally, I think it has more to do with SA in every what shape and form. Easy for me to say, maybe, since my lifestyle is not and has never been in an environment where my social and business life have taken me to places that would be more prone to aggressive or illegal behaviour.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Unless they are just plain crazy, people become agressive for a reason. I would try my best to diffuse the situation, sincerely apologize even if no apology was deserved, be as humble as I had to be to stop the agression. I also have a one button hot key for the voice recorder on my cell phone. I would try to hit that as quickly into the confrontation as possible. I'd keep backing away and look for an opportunity to run. If pursued and I felt threatened by serious bodily injury, I would draw the gun and use it. I wouldn't reveal that I had it beforehand.

    Hopefully, there would be enough on the recording to help me with the law.
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  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Old Sarge's Avatar
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    I have to agree with High Pockets. Given the fact when I was about 35 years old, I felt like I could handle most any kind of threat. But now that my age has doubled, I still have the same desire to live, but with a broken down body, no longer able to physically function at it's peak performance, any threat today, would be handled as appropriately seen fit.

  5. #19
    Member Array jerp's Avatar
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    All i have to say is look at the Walla Walla ( believe thats how you spell it) incident in that washington park.... shot an unarmed aggressor nearly 2x his own age, in the leg. DA did not press charges, interesting story should look into it.
    A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check Made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

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  6. #20
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    Avoid___move___change direction____change speed of travel____avoid.
    I personaly would avoid until threat was "otherwise unavoidable".

    If perceived threat follows and persists, yell (or command) : "STAY THE [ *insert expletive of choice*] AWAY FROM ME!!"
    Scan and monitor for accomplices/additional threats.

    If threat continues pursuit - access weapon.

    "........Deadly force is justified ONLY when undertaken to prevent imminent and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent" _____Massad Ayoob
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    How big, age, male or female, No 1 weapon of choice in murder.... Hands and feet.....
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  8. #22
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    maat.......................... But, what about an unarmed aggressor?...................
    What, EXACTLY, is this person doing to you that causes you to call him/her an 'aggressor'? .... please describe the 'aggressive' behavior.

    The details matter very much. (see also Force Continuum).
    There's a whole hell of a lot you better know before you resort to deadly force.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maat View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, an aggressor with a weapon is a lethal attack. But, what about an unarmed aggressor?

    I question whether I should allow anyone to engage me while I am carrying. I would not pull on anyone I feel I could manage, but I question what I should do if someone is my size or bigger.

    Clearly, the first option is to avoid engagement. But, what if you are attacked physically while you have your weapon?

    Do you defend yourself while armed? Or do you pull to avoid physical engagement to prevent the possibility of having your gun used on yourself?

    Thoughts.
    He may not have a weapon, but if he gets yours, then he has a weapon and you don't.
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tookerw1040 View Post
    Never pull unless imminent danger (life or limb) is there. If I pull I am using. If i am minding my business and am attacked depending on the severity I will use the force necessary to protect myself.

    Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk

    I agree with this.

  11. #25
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    FL law says deadly force is okay to prevent death or serious bodily harm in a case of forcible felony and makes no exception as to whether a weapon is being used or not. Seeing as I'm not in this scenerio, I can't answer the question. But I will say--I intend to protect myself from death or serious bodily harmed from anything.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  12. #26
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    I'm an old man with several 'parts' removed...an unarmed dirtbag attacking me will get the same treatment as an armed dirtbag.
    If he overwhelms me...he will have a weapon. So I'm giving him my weapon and ammo...ammo first!
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
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    I`m too old to fight or run anymore so get up in my face, get pushy and you meet "Mr Peppergel". If that don`t work then it`s really time to rock.

  14. #28
    Member Array baren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Unarmed aggressor, to some extent, is an oxymoron. People get knocked to the ground, hit their head and die (we just had one of these cases in SC--not even punches but a lot of pushing and shoving among a bunch of late night drinkers.) I agree with many that being CC carries a burden that would not exist if you did not carry the ability to kill someone. It would seem that if you can manage carrying a firearm and this scenario seems to be real for you, carrying a stun or pepper spray is nothing more than a spare mag and solves the problem. My first thought, however, always comes down to situational awareness (SA) and even, G-d forbid, retreat, apology or even kiss ass. Maybe I am fortunate and I have said this many times on forums---I am 70 years old (actually today) and I HAVE NEVER FOUND MYSELF IN ANY WHAT IFS WHATSOEVER. Personally, I think it has more to do with SA in every what shape and form. Easy for me to say, maybe, since my lifestyle is not and has never been in an environment where my social and business life have taken me to places that would be more prone to aggressive or illegal behaviour.
    First, Happy Belated Birthday wishes. Second, although I'm closer to 70 than 20 and after 24 yrs in the Army my Knees and Ticker are worst for wear. I too rely more on my SA and if necessary Shot placement that Ninja skill sets. I never forget not to underestimate an potential enemy. As with many Vets and retirees, and those being disabled, your firearm whether used as a deterrent or ultimately shooting to save yourself from death or serious bodily harm is your only equalizer in many situations.

    I enjoy this forum and the What-If situations. As a Former MP. when on patrol we would think out the what-If scenarios. It is always amazing how many like-minded people perceive a situation differently and respond to them.

    Again Happy Birthday!

  15. #29
    Member Array baren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Sarge View Post
    I have to agree with High Pockets. Given the fact when I was about 35 years old, I felt like I could handle most any kind of threat. But now that my age has doubled, I still have the same desire to live, but with a broken down body, no longer able to physically function at it's peak performance, any threat today, would be handled as appropriately seen fit.
    Isn't that the True! I'm not a spring chicken just an old Rooster:)
    Last edited by baren; November 19th, 2011 at 04:38 AM.

  16. #30
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    Engage an unarmed aggressor using lethal force at your own risk.

    The fact that you are not familiar with the intricacies of what disparity of force is, how it works in a lethal force encounter is not going to matter if the police and prosecutor decides to charge you with manslaughter or murder. In fact, what you don't know can really harm you.


    It is incumbent on you to have a clear knowledge of the lethal force laws in your jurisdiction. It is incumbent on you to know and understand issues which may be mitigating factors in your decision to employ deadly force against an unarmed person.

    When the smoke clears, and you're wearing handcuffs, the fact that you did not know there were no disparity of force issues to play in your favor won't mean anything to the arresting officers or prosecutor.

    The world of carrying a gun for self protection is a world for level headed, intelligent, mature individuals who have both eyes wide open and vast amount of knowledge between their ears.

    The minimal requirements of what each state requires to obtain a concealed carry permit is woefully inadequate in preparing anyone for the legal ramifications of carrying a gun and using it during the course of events. You pay a few bucks, have a background check, maybe attend a short inadequate class on gun safety and a smattering of law and they they cut you loose.

    If you didn't realize you are really adequately prepared for what comes next, you may find yourself on the short end of the stick.

    My best suggestion is to attend a course in lethal force by Massad Ayoob at your earliest opportunity. Popping into an internet forum hoping to pick up a few pointers here and there could be your biggest mistake.

    Short of that, learn and study all you can find on the subject of Disparity of Force and how it applies in a lethal force encounter.

    Should I Shoot Someone IF They Are Unarmed?

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Bark'n; November 19th, 2011 at 02:00 AM.
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    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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