Knife vs Bat/Club

This is a discussion on Knife vs Bat/Club within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In another thread I posted that I could think of many scenarios where it might be an advantage to use a bat or club over ...

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Thread: Knife vs Bat/Club

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Knife vs Bat/Club

    In another thread I posted that I could think of many scenarios where it might be an advantage to use a bat or club over a knife if given the choice. The assumption that a firearm is best then a knife then club then spray and finally hand to hand is the correct order of deadliness is not always true in my opinion.

    I believe that for myself at least if I were to meet a bad guy in a back alley who was armed with a knife I would rather have a club, bat or heavy cane to defend against it. Given room to use it I believe that in this instance the heavy club would be the deadlier of the two weapons.

    Another scenario. You and I are at bad breath distance in a confined space. In that case I believe the knife would be the deadlier of the two. For that matter I believe that a sheathed knife could be brought to bear quicker and with greater effectiveness than a holstered firearm could be under that condition.

    Then again I could be dead wrong. But I would be comfortable with my choice. A firearm is not the deadliest weapon all the time. It could be a hindrance.

    Michael

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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    The weapon is only as good as the person using it. If you are not trained in the use of any weapon, a more experienced foe can disarm you and cause havoc.
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    I agree with Michael. A gun is only one tool and sometimes not the best choice.

    A cane is a good defense against a knife at least for the purpose of breaking the attack to make space and time to draw; and yes at bad breath distance a knife might work better as too (If LUCKY) a successful H2H disarm. There is pretty much only one way to hold a gun in your hand; there are several ways to hold a knife which give a variety of angles of attack.

    Anyway, you never want to be there doing that, except as play at the gym.

    We all kid ourselves if we think just one tool is the answer to everything.
    Last edited by Hopyard; November 21st, 2011 at 05:18 PM. Reason: chagned "to" to "too"
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Senior Member Array Dadsnugun's Avatar
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    I understand your point OP, but agree with AZ on this. I have ZERO experience with a knife for self defense and would likely end up just getting myself hurt or killed if I tried to deploy one defensively, especially against a skilled attacker. I might get lucky and bury the thing up to the hilt in the BG, but for me, that's all it would be...pure luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadsnugun View Post
    I understand your point OP, but agree with AZ on this. I have ZERO experience with a knife for self defense and would likely end up just getting myself hurt or killed if I tried to deploy one defensively, especially against a skilled attacker. I might get lucky and bury the thing up to the hilt in the BG, but for me, that's all it would be...pure luck.
    I don't think the real issue is the defender's experience "with a knife." The real issue is how to defend against the knife attack.

    OP suggested a cane as a possibility. He also suggested that at breath distance another knife might be a better choice than a gun. Who knows? Every situation is different, and all are dynamic, so there is a time and a place for every tool.

    Obviously if you can draw and shoot COM, that probably will give you the best overall chance of stopping the attack, but that might fail, and it also might not be possible when you are being pressed by an aggressive dude.

    One of the first things I thought about after getting my CHL was "now what." I realized that without other tricks in the bag the gun in my pocket could be a pretty limited and useless machine.
    I spend a lot of time on H2H for this reason--as well as for the general health benefit of moving my bottom a few hours a week.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    The weapon is only as good as the person using it. If you are not trained in the use of any weapon, a more experienced foe can disarm you and cause havoc.
    Under the wrong conditions a weapon can be useless even in the hands of an expert. An expert with a knife is not much of a threat to a expert with a rifle from across a parking lot. Same experts with same weapons at bad breath distance my money is on the guy with the knife.

    Michael

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I will go out on a limb and say that if you are attacked with a knife, the attacker will not be telegraphing it like in the movies standing in front of you and holding it like zorro and it is going to happen by surprise.... you will probably get the sewing machine treatment and may not even know you are being stabbed... so the real question is how will you respond to that kind of attack or better yet... avoid it?
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    Mostly agree with AZC, but someone trying to commit aggravated robbery may be more interested in
    displaying to scare than in the actual sneak attack. Of course such a dude can be dealt with (usually) with a throw down wallet. OTOH, if the individual is intent on harming you to start with, AZC is right. You might never see it coming till after the blood is gushing. It is pathetically easy to palm a blade and slash a neck as you simply appear to walk past the victim. To an onlooker it might just appear that you waved "hello" and kept on walking.

    Some problems don't have good answers and knife defense is one of them.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    If you have a knife and I have a gun, I will shoot you. No need to play "Steven Segal" with edged weapons. That is a deadly threat all day long. No way I'm using a club for that scenario. If he only has his fists and isn't HUGE, then maybe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    If you have a knife and I have a gun, I will shoot you. No need to play "Steven Segal" with edged weapons. That is a deadly threat all day long. No way I'm using a club for that scenario. If he only has his fists and isn't HUGE, then maybe.
    I think the issue is that you might not know an attack is coming until someone is almost on you. In that circumstances a cane may at least give you an opportunity to block, perhaps break the wrist and grip, make space, draw and fire. Otherwise while you are fiddling around in your waist band, digging deep in your smart carry or pocket, trying to draw while the attack is being pressed, your off hand is getting sliced (if you are lucky) and worse if you are not lucky. And if you are really unlucky, the dude is opposite you and has the knife in his rt hand, and as you are drawing with your right hand, he may grab your gun hand or rt arm and keep slicing away with the knife in his strong arm.

    I don't want to sound like a tough guy, I am not one, and I don't want to sound like a know it all in SD, because I certainly am very very very far from that. But, what I do want to suggest is that there is no substitute for getting a buddy, or getting a trainer, getting some toy weapons of one sort or another and playing around with reaction times and balance and various responses. Even if you are not getting formal instruction, get a bud and play around in the back yard so you see how things can go. It can get pretty hairy even when you know you aren't really going to be hit or cut.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    The attackers throat, eyes, testicles or other soft points are all targets and all in play.

    Hands and feet are with you all the time and will work if you know how and are willing to use them.

    You can bet you will get cut most of the time up close and personal going hands on no matter what your response.

    OS
    Last edited by Old School; November 22nd, 2011 at 08:16 AM.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

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