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How Fast It Happens

4K views 35 replies 27 participants last post by  Hiram25 
#1 ·
Dash Cam video from Lafayette, Indiana.

Video

News Story

Bad guy bails from car at 2:40 - first defensive shots fired at 2:44. Officer is stabbed in the face and does not get off a shot. 10 shots fired by other officers, 7 hitting bad guy. Even after taking 7 hits, the bad guy is still in the fight... Taser call at 2:59.
 
#3 ·
Really shows how strange some peoples thought processes are by reading some of the responses on the news story site. How can you not think the cops were justified in using deadly force in that situation is beyond me. Maybe they should of just asked him nicely to stop stabbing a cop in the face and wait for him to comply without using force or hurting his feelings!
 
#4 ·
I saw no problem with making that knife fighting dirtbag a lead magnet...he quickly 'earned' his own end.:hand1:
 
#5 ·
I hope the BG enjoy rotting in hell for eternity. Shooting is too good for him. If I had my way he would be slowly fed feet first into a chipper/shredder.
 
#32 ·
This is not a good idea, do you have ANY idea how much time it would take to then CLEAN that chipper?
 
#6 ·
It can happen wery quickly indeed. The article makes no mention of Officer Dombkowski's status. I hope that he is doing well.

This proves that even w/ hits that can LATER cause death, a motivated perp w/ bad intentions can be a SERIOUS threat.
 
#36 ·
I agree with this one, he went way beyond the taser and my response would have been to shoot him again, if the threat had not been removed.
 
#22 ·
Dog sounded as though he was ready to chomp down on some BG butt.
 
#12 ·
That reminds of an incident that happened in the high school that I work at. A student violated the dress code of no hats on when inside. A vice-principal removed the hat with the local LEO liason officer present. The officer made incidental contact trying to calm the student down, and he got punched and then tackled.

It took three people to get the kid off of the officer. He's now facing criminal charges, and he will be expelled shortly. Over a baseball cap. It boggles my mind.

When things go bad, they can go bad really fast. I hope the officer recovers fully.
 
#14 ·
I watched the video.. several times. I would imagine the officers already had guns drawn on this guy before he got out of the car, even though you can't see it in the video. I'm simply basing this on other LEO encounters I've seen. That being the case, the thing that most likely caused the delay was simply the LEO's waiting to ascertain the motive of the BG. As we all know, police are under a different set of rules than ordinary citizens. They can't just start shooting the guy without knowing 100% that he is attacking them. While I would have started shooting the moment I saw him getting out of the car with a knife, they probably had to wait longer.

Even in an attack against an ordinary citizen I would say recognition of the threat takes far more valuable time than actually drawing a weapon and firing. Just like we learned in driver's ed about braking time vs. reaction time. Same principle applies. Most of us won't draw our weapon in public until something happens that is unquestionably appropriate for it. Most of us aren't going to draw because we see something suspicious.

That being the case, rather than going home and practicing your draw for an hour, I suspect it would be better to spend more time training your mind to recognize threats faster, have better self-awareness, because I believe the value of those things far outweighs the value of your draw time. It is my hope that should anything ever go down around me, I'll have already had my hand on my weapon before the BG makes his move. However, unlike the police in this video, I'll be shooting the guy at the first hint of a weapon and aggression towards me.

On a slightly different note.. Was this guy in the video insane? Drugged up? What? I can't imagine anyone jumping out of a car with a knife and attacking a bunch of police officers unless he was suicidal.
 
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#15 ·
I watched the video.. several times. I would imagine the officers already had guns drawn on this guy before he got out of the car, even though you can't see it in the video. I'm simply basing this on other LEO encounters I've seen. That being the case, the thing that most likely caused the delay was simply the LEO's waiting to ascertain the motive of the BG. As we all know, police are under a different set of rules than ordinary citizens. They can't just start shooting the guy without knowing 100% that he is attacking them. While I would have started shooting the moment I saw him getting out of the car with a knife, they probably had to wait longer.

Even in an attack against an ordinary citizen I would say recognition of the threat takes far more valuable time than actually drawing a weapon and firing. Just like we learned in driver's ed about braking time vs. reaction time. Same principle applies. Most of us won't draw our weapon in public until something happens that is unquestionably appropriate for it. Most of us aren't going to draw because we see something suspicious.

That being the case, rather than going home and practicing your draw for an hour, I suspect it would be better to spend more time training your mind to recognize threats faster, have better self-awareness, because I believe the value of those things far outweighs the value of your draw time. It is my hope that should anything ever go down around me, I'll have already had my hand on my weapon before the BG makes his move. However, unlike the police in this video, I'll be shooting the guy at the first hint of a weapon and aggression towards me.

On a slightly different note.. Was this guy in the video insane? Drugged up? What? I can't imagine anyone jumping out of a car with a knife and attacking a bunch of police officers unless he was suicidal.
Agreed. Realizing the threat far outweighs your quick draw capabilities. You make a mistake and draw to soon, that can't be taken back. You make a mistake and draw to late, you're dead. Knowing when is the appropriate time is the most important factor. Now, how to practice this is NOT easy. Unless you're in life threatening scenario's daily, it's not something that's easy to practice.
 
#18 ·
So sorry to see LEO attacked and injured by assailant.:frown:
I wish him strong and speedy recovery.

Painful reminder of dangers LEOs face in performance of their duties.

I would likely NEVER be in that scenario_______I'm not going to be chasing down a 'bad guy'. ..... nor will I have to jump out of my locked, secure vehicle to apprehend him [the point when the officer became vulnerable]. I will have the opportunity to access my weapon if he approaches with that knife.
.....and I can drive away while the police cannot!

It is amazing to see how quickly an attacker can damage someone.
Shakes me to realize 7 hits aren't enough to stop a committed attacker.

EDIT: Welcome to DC Forum Anthropoid.
 
#19 ·
I would likely NEVER be in that scenario_______I'm not going to be chasing down a 'bad guy'. ..... nor will I have to jump out of my locked, secure vehicle to apprehend him [the point when the officer became vulnerable]. I will have the opportunity to access my weapon if he approaches with that knife.
.....and I can drive away while the police cannot!

It is amazing to see how quickly an attacker can damage someone.
Shakes me to realize 7 hits aren't enough to stop a committed attacker.

EDIT: Welcome to DC Forum Anthropoid.
Let's change the scenario a bit... You park behind a car at your local store... Open your car door and get out... Then play the video from 2:40... Is 4 seconds enough time for you to react??
 
#21 ·
While it's easy to second guess, the perp sat in his car for several seconds as the cops ordered him to get out. In that time their guns could have been drawn and trained on the car door. Nevertheless, the perp could have sustained several COM shots and kept on coming. Exploding off the line of force is still recommended. A civilian victim might have even less time to react to a sudden knife charge, move while drawing, and shoot to incapacitate.

"Drop the knife! I'll count to five." One thousand BANG, 2 3 4 5.
 
#23 ·
This video reminds me of one of our sayings on patrol. Bad s--- happens fast... I approach every traffic stop with my safariland holster discretely ready to "rock" (thumb break slides down and open). My weapon stays holstered but I strive to have that extra millisecond of "what if" ingrained in my situational awareness. I'm fortunate to work with partners who're tactically sound, and we watch each others back. P.S. We're very ccw friendly here in Oklahoma, the way I see it most decent citizens, that are lawfully licensed to carry concealed, are cop friendly (or at least tolerant). God bless, and Happy Thanksgiving...,
 
#28 ·
The video car didn't stop moving til 2:36, was he supposed to release the K9 while still moving?
 
#25 ·
I appreciate replies by adric and RKN. Questions: Anyone know how the officer is doing? Anyone know how the dirtbag is doing? Anyone know what kind of peashooters the LEOs were using and exactly what did they hit? Somehow you get the impression in a car chase at something like 20 to 30 mph that something is very wrong in this picture and it sure turned out that way as this maniac does the incredible. I realize there were priorities in this situation with the way he came out of car, but it seemed to take awhile before anyone decided to look in the dirtbag's car. It would be interesting if thread writer returned with more infor as it is available.
 
#29 ·
#30 ·
If this happened to a permit holder, I suggest ingraining the following actions:

1. Get off the X. Sidestep, possibly "helping" the perp along. You might get cut, but not as bad. The BG had lots of forward momentum working against him. This puts you in a much better position time wise to set up your defense in case he comes back.

2. If you can't move, use your off-hand to block the weapon as you draw and fire from retention, taking care to not shoot yourself. Any wounds you take to your arm should not be life threatening unless he gets your brachial artery or gets to your chest. These wounds are called defensive wounds and should prove to any LEOs, Prosecutor, Grand Jury or Judge that you were in fear of your life. Alternatively, fall onto your back and block with your feet as you shoot.
 
#31 ·
Glad the officer will survive it OK, albeit with a good scar I'm sure. Hope the BG didn't severe any nerves or facial muscles.
Anyone I know, the instant anyone comes out of a car rapidly, guns are drawn and on them.... until it is known if they have bad intentions or not , and / or are armed or not. In a chase, they are almost automatically out. I've never seen it otherwise. However, if he beat them out of the car, that could have led to this situation.... if they were still in the process of getting out of the car.

They may want to change their procedures, or maybe they weren't followed. All kinds of unknown factors to know for sure.

Hibby; said:
What is absolutely amazing and impressive to me is the fact that the officers were able to hit the suspect SEVEN times without once striking the officer, and they were in a high adrenaline combat situation.
It takes adrenaline a little time to kick in and have an effect, and everything is over sometimes before it even does ... because things do happen quickly.
 
#34 ·
I am going to take this slightly off topic. Is it true the normally the second patrol car will call off what is happening in a high speed chase? If so doesn't the flashing light from 1st car on a rainy day make it hard to see what is happening? Can the first car shut off the rearward facing lights?

How the Leo make a complete recovery and takes a leak on BG resting place.

Did anybody else notice that one of the leo takes another by the wrist and walks him off camera? (3.08) I will assume the guy is in shock.
 
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