Denny's Shootout - Houston - Page 2

Denny's Shootout - Houston

This is a discussion on Denny's Shootout - Houston within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by baren Sounds like a Win-Win for Texas CHL carriers. Texas Law doesn't require the CHL carrier to be able to read the ...

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Thread: Denny's Shootout - Houston

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baren View Post
    Sounds like a Win-Win for Texas CHL carriers. Texas Law doesn't require the CHL carrier to be able to read the Minds of the BG's ... just their actions. Pulling the Gun while engaging in a felony is simple enough. The guy should be a honorary spokesman for CHL in Texas.
    At least he reacted to situation properly according to Texas CHL laws. I guess if he just took cover under table under until the BG's left, he might as well left his gun at home. I bet the BG's staked the place out for minute or two to know the head-count in Denny's. They might had time to look for the one and only customer, then he would have lost the element of surprise.
    There is no obligation for CCers to fight crime. I carry mine strictly for self-defense.

    IF....and only IF....a situation arises that I am trained for and can safely protect others, I will (I hope), but by no means does that have ANYTHING to do with my carry permit. I would do (And have done) the same unarmed.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    The concealed carrier took cover and fired...


    WOW! No wonder some businesses post the NO CARRY signage. Then he cased um out of the business and continued to fire on um.


    To answer the OP questions... My answer would be, No and No.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  3. #18
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    Take the money, leave the pancakes...

    Don't know; wasn't there. I was at the Waffle House at the time.
    Bashful likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array HK Dan's Avatar
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    If they brandished guns and made any type of threats at all, actual or implied, yes I am going to defend myself. Yes, that means with deadly force. I don't know if Texas has a compulsion statute or not (Iowa does), that essentially says if your actions were compelled by another person it is not a public offense if a 3rd party is injured by your actions. Typically if I shoot 3 rounds and one hits a bystander, the perp is charged with murder (or attempted murder, whatever). There is no lawyer attached to my bullet if my actions were justifiable based on the actions of the bad guys.
    Bark'n and Azchief like this.
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  5. #20
    TVJ
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    Senior Member Array TVJ's Avatar
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    Besides satiating hunger, what good comes from eating at any grease pan between midnight and six am?
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HK Dan View Post
    If they brandished guns and made any type of threats at all, actual or implied, yes I am going to defend myself. Yes, that means with deadly force. I don't know if Texas has a compulsion statute or not (Iowa does), that essentially says if your actions were compelled by another person it is not a public offense if a 3rd party is injured by your actions. Typically if I shoot 3 rounds and one hits a bystander, the perp is charged with murder (or attempted murder, whatever). There is no lawyer attached to my bullet if my actions were justifiable based on the actions of the bad guys.
    Very interesting! I know in Missouri the prosecution has the option (and often times does) file charges of felony murder on any of the other remaining bad guys for death of the main actor you kill. But I don't know for sure what liability you have for your stray rounds. I'll have to look deeply into the law to see if any type of "compulsion statute" exists in Missouri for the protection of the good guy.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Ring's Avatar
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    The sole customer in the restaurant, a licensed concealed handgun carrier, observed the suspects enter, pulled out his own gun, took cover and fired at the robbers.
    some 1 needs more time at the range....

  8. #23
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    Ok not debating Texas law here just an observation.

    The stolen van was later found with apparent bullet holes in it. Why in the world would you fire at a fleeing moving vehicle? He is no longer a threat in anyway, shape or form. Remember it is not what he coulda, woulda, shoulda done it is what he is doing at that time.

    Secondly I bet the owner of the van was lucky he was not tied up in the back of the van as the CC'er was shooting at it that might have been hard to explain how the owner survived the carjacking or whatever happened, only to be shot by the lone ranger shooting at the van to do what? Hope they stop and surrender?
    I am with him in defending himself and others whatever flips his cookie I wasn't there and all that but why shoot at a vehicle, who knows?
    SigHawk likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #24
    Member Array TheGiant's Avatar
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    Come on where are the Rambo'a that pull out there CC sash and take on the bad guys guns blazing! Go ahead make my day!

    I am sure if I thought my life or anyone in the Denny's was in danger I would do what was necessary but I would not follow them out the door. They might have had a driver waiting on them who was also armed.
    gottabkiddin likes this.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjones View Post
    Unless I thought my life was in danger,I would be just a good witness or I thought they might shoot the clerk.
    Nothing to add to this.

    Engage the dirtbags in the restaurant if I had some cover and the upper hand? It's what I believe I live for. Chase them outside the restaurant? Highly unlikely.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array Dadsnugun's Avatar
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    I've got no problems with the guys actions, right up to the point that the BG's leave the restaurant and he chases them outside gun a'blazin'...good job mostly.
    Never pick a fight with an old man...If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you - John Steinbeck
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  12. #27
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    If I believed I had sufficient cover, I'd probably shoot at the BGs also. I'd be far more likely it was just one BG. But I am not really fond of the 2 against 1 situation. The only thing that would even it out is if I had sufficient cover and I were able to get the first shot off as a surprise. That way I could even the odds immediately to 1 against 1.

    The only way this story could have turned out better would have been if there had been two dead thugs lying on the floor when the police arrived.

    When I am in a restaurant I always try to find a table that gives me a view of the parking lot by the main entrance. While I'm eating I watch the people going in and out of cars and the main door. I do not want to be surprised by the sudden appearance of gunmen in ski-masks inside the building. If they are going to come in, I want to have the upper hand by having a few seconds advance notice.

    On a side note, I was in Houston 2 weekends ago and I ate at a Denny's and I think it is that one, but I'm not 100% sure.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Ok not debating Texas law here just an observation.

    The stolen van was later found with apparent bullet holes in it. Why in the world would you fire at a fleeing moving vehicle? He is no longer a threat in anyway, shape or form. Remember it is not what he coulda, woulda, shoulda done it is what he is doing at that time.

    Secondly I bet the owner of the van was lucky he was not tied up in the back of the van as the CC'er was shooting at it that might have been hard to explain how the owner survived the carjacking or whatever happened, only to be shot by the lone ranger shooting at the van to do what? Hope they stop and surrender?
    I am with him in defending himself and others whatever flips his cookie I wasn't there and all that but why shoot at a vehicle, who knows?
    We can do some very unexpected things under stress and adrenaline. I'm not defending someone for shooting at a fleeing vehicle, but my guess would be that if he read a hypothetical post on here asking if he'd shoot at a fleeing vehicle, he'd probably say NO.

    I spend a lot of time training and though most of it happeneded naturally when I accidentally confronted a couple guys trying to break into my house and was almost attached with a crowbar, I did a thing or two I would have sworn I would never do. Everything went exactly as I've trained until I got to the one thing I hadn't spent serious time training, and that was once the contact was broken. So, I reacted.

    I don't know about anyone's personal experiences here, but when you fully commit to a fight and then it's over, it's hard to tell your body to stop.

    Again, I'm not excusing the actions of shooting at a fleeing vehicle, I'm just pointing out its not always as easy to just stop as we think it is on the forums. Of course, personality and life experiences may play a big part in this. Unfortunately, even if we spend a few days per week training, we cannot say for sure what we'll do until we're in the situation itself.
    Bark'n likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  14. #29
    Member Array yale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GentlemanJim View Post
    Denny's money is not something I would start a shootout over.

    Edited to add: I probably wouldn't have made a good witness either because I would have been leaving via the emergency exit.

    Regards,
    Happyguy :)
    ^^^This. The money is insured. Me, I'm getting out of the area ASAP.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
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    It's very difficult for me to speculate what my actions would be other than; it's not my money and "Denny's" is responsible for its business practices and security. I'm not in the business of "to protect and serve". If I'm there with my family my intent is first and foremost to make them safe. IMO, that's best served by trying to safely escape if possible and/or finding close cover. If and only if, the armed robbers direct me and/or my family to relocate, separate or the like, I would not know their intentions and would have to assume the worst nightmare possible and deter their plans by use of force. As we all know, plans can change at a moments notice...

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