Woman being approached by large man in alley?

Woman being approached by large man in alley?

This is a discussion on Woman being approached by large man in alley? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have shot and handled guns since I was 12. My wife is now learning and shooting with me. I am concerned that in certain ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
  1. #1
    Member
    Array js's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    kansas
    Posts
    320

    Woman being approached by large man in alley?

    I have shot and handled guns since I was 12. My wife is now learning and shooting with me. I am concerned that in certain situations that she could be forced to pull her weapon even if the bg is unarmed. I know most will stop if a weapon is pointed, but if they don't she could be forced to shoot an unarmed person. I can teach my wife basics of gun safety and some tactical. I am wondering if tactical training of this type exists for civilians or if itís warranted. I have also considered having her carry mace, but she has her limits on how much she is willing to carry.

    J.S.


  2. #2
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,484
    I am thinking, (guessing) - 125# lady - 250# BG - could well legitimately have her genuinely fearing for her life. If that bad, her gun could well be brought into play.

    Much would depend naturally on her perception of the threat, the way a BG talks, moves etc, and even her options for taking flight (top choice usually). Sure, some training programs could well help her with threat assessment, as they could us all.

    In the final analysis she like anyone, would have to ''play it as they see it'' - hopefully being able to later justify the actions taken - a situation any of us might encounter.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Piedmont Triad, NC
    Posts
    1,100
    There are many civilain programs and training facilities located throughout the country that can help both her and you in defensive situations.

    Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, and Blackwater are just three off the top of my head. These are some of the more recognized names as they are and have been discussed in length by magazines, TV programs, as well as on internet forums.

    Each have their own strong suit as it were. Blackwater is geared more toward military combat. During the aftermath of Katrina, Blackwater associates were hired to help aid in the security of New Orleans and other effected areas to much controversy in many arenas. They have also been hired to work policing duties in Iraq and Afganistan.

    Thunder Ranch and Gunsite are considered by many to be more "real world".

    Sig Sauer also has a training facility that is well known. Their mainstay is police and SWAT tactics, but does provide for a civilian base as well.

    Some one here may be aware of a facility closer to you than Arizona, Oregon, North Carolina, Maryland, and New Hampshire, but I wouldn't rule any of them out. Cost is going to be something to figure in as well.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    3,468
    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    I know most will stop if a weapon is pointed, but if they don't she could be forced to shoot an unarmed person.
    Don't train that way & certainly don't think that way- it will get one or both of you hurt/killed. OC is great, but if they don't turn the opposite direction immediately she should most likely plan on shooting. A woman has little chance if a grown man gets his hands on her.

    I lived and worked in Wichita for several years- not a place for 1/2 measures. Take care!

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    1,752
    The question that one will be willing to defend oneself with lethal force is a valid one for everyone to consider regardless of gender....
    I'm sure that most here have considered it many hours....
    I'm afraid it would take something catastrphic to happen for my wife to consider carrying. I wish she would carry now, but I cannot force her and have determined that she is an adult and can decide for herself... It's probably best she doesnt carry if she feels forced into it...
    Last edited by dimmak; August 15th, 2006 at 04:02 PM. Reason: spellin' agin.... 8-(
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

  6. #6
    Member Array M1911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    137
    I am wondering if tactical training of this type exists for civilians or if itís warranted.
    Yes and yes. I highly recommend training for you and your wife.

    There are many such academies. The two oldest are probably Gunsite and Lethal Force Institute. Both highly recommended. Others include Thunder Ranch, Sigarms Academy, Blackwater. And many trainers travel around the country and might be in your neck of the woods at some point: Cumberland Tactics (Randy Cain), Defense Training (John Farnam).

    M1911

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Piedmont Triad, NC
    Posts
    1,100
    Quote Originally Posted by dimmak View Post
    The question that one will be willing to defend oneself with lethal force is a valid one for everyone to consider regardless of gender....
    I'm sure that most here have considered it many hours....
    I'm afraid it would take something catastrphic to happen for my wife to consider carrying. I wish she would carry now, but I cannot force her and have determined that she is an adult and can decide for herself... It's probably best she doesnt carry if she feels forced into it...
    This is the same dilema that I have encountered with my wife, and I too have resigned to her being an adult. Believe me I pulled out a lot of hair trying to get her to understand, but to no avail.

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    1,752
    Quote Originally Posted by purple88yj View Post
    This is the same dilema that I have encountered with my wife, and I too have resigned to her being an adult. Believe me I pulled out a lot of hair trying to get her to understand, but to no avail.
    her's or yours...
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    1,752
    Here's another training link:
    http://www.sigarms.com/EducationTraining/
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,206

    Question Do either of you have a permit to carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    I have shot and handled guns since I was 12. My wife is now learning and shooting with me. I am concerned that in certain situations that she could be forced to pull her weapon even if the bg is unarmed. I know most will stop if a weapon is pointed, but if they don't she could be forced to shoot an unarmed person. I can teach my wife basics of gun safety and some tactical. I am wondering if tactical training of this type exists for civilians or if it’s warranted. I have also considered having her carry mace, but she has her limits on how much she is willing to carry.

    J.S.
    If so did not your instructor talk about Situational Awareness and Avoidance Techniques in your class? That would be in my opinion what your wife would benifit most from, not combat courses like those offered by Thunder Ranch etc.. Your wife needs to learn what constitutes self defense, when she can legally pull and use a gun, and most improtantly how to avoid being in those situations to begin with. She doesn't need to know how to dive for cover while dressed all in black wearing a flack vest.

    If she does not have a CCW permit she should take a course that offers as part of the curriculum the things I have mentioned above. Too bad you don't live closer to me.
    Last edited by havegunjoe; August 15th, 2006 at 09:43 PM.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
    NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
    Utah Permit Certified Instructor

  11. #11
    Member Array Blackhawk6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    370
    JS,

    Here is an article by Massad Ayoob explaining disparity of force that you may find helpful. Of course, a magazine article is no substitute for proper training and/or legal advice.

    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...36/ai_11363372

    Many of the training venues mentioned offer beneficial training. None are as "paramilitary" as some have suggested, though certain programs they offer are for the military/law enforcement. It is important to research the course's syllabus to ensure it meets your needs before attending. I think you will find a phone call is generally sufficient.

  12. #12
    Member
    Array js's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    kansas
    Posts
    320
    We will both have our permits Jan 07. Since she is a beginner we have been spending range time on a weekly basis for a year before she carries. I agree with the idea of situational awareness and avoidance, which we practice now to a certain extent, but she will not listen to me as much as she would an instructor. I think I'm looking for a little more in depth training than the 8 hours ccw course is going to provide. From what I understand they are covering real basic stuff. My wife would not hesitate to use her weapon, (She has been physically assaulted) and that scares me a little in regards to legal difficulties. I may have to spend a little more time locating a course that will cover some of these things.

    Thanks for the Info

    J.S.

  13. #13
    VIP Member
    Array gunthorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    home office
    Posts
    2,355
    Sometimes it's good to hear it from another woman. Get her Paxton Quigley's short book "Armed and Female." There are a lot of links for women by women on www.gunthorp.com. We all follow different speed limits on the paths to proficiency, but when we take our personal safety seriously, we all arrive. Enjoy your range time together, you are very fortunate.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Derry, NH
    Posts
    988
    IF she found herself in that situation, which hopefully with situational awareness and avoidance she shall never be there, but disparity of force issues come into play where she would be justified in shooting IF she feared for her life. That's the black and white answer that is covered in hundreds of shades of grey if she had to fire in self-defense.

    A great book about armed self defense is David Kenik's "Armed Response". There is a complete chapter on reasons and basic law ideology concerning how, why, and when to use a handgun in self-defense. If she is just getting into this, it's a must read. It was the first thing I really read about armed self-defense before I even took my local class. IMHO, it's worth three times the $13 Amazon is selling it for!
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Prescott, AZ
    Posts
    1,692
    I live about 20 minutes from Gunsite and know one of their instructers. I spent half a week there (signed-up for 5 days and got pneumonia cuz I suck at life lol) and I gotta tell ya.... it's pretty damned good. They have a full-sized killhouse and a lot of different point-shooting lessons to be learned. Hate to have you fly out from Kansas, though. Hope you can find something closer, then.

    But if you're willin to fork out the dough, let me know if you're in the area. Beers are on me.
    The Gunsite Blog
    ITFT / Quick Kill Review
    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Hidden Alley and glock26
    By mjblat in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: February 16th, 2012, 02:29 PM
  2. Good: Lawrence woman fends off large man's attack
    By WhoWeBePart1 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: August 18th, 2010, 11:11 PM
  3. Carry in a bowling alley
    By ellswj in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: February 12th, 2009, 11:32 PM
  4. Tornado Alley
    By HotGuns in forum Bob & Terry's Place
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: February 11th, 2008, 11:34 PM
  5. Gunner's Alley
    By SammyIamToday in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: November 1st, 2006, 07:26 AM

Search tags for this page

gunsite 250 class syllabus

,

gunsite 250 syllabus

,

gunsite 250 training syllabus

,

massad ayoob courtroom minefield

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors