No-Knock warrant

This is a discussion on No-Knock warrant within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Right now there is someone posing as a police office in the Upstate of SC. He has sexually assaulted one woman and robbed a few ...

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Thread: No-Knock warrant

  1. #16
    Member Array Aiko's Avatar
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    Right now there is someone posing as a police office in the Upstate of SC. He has sexually assaulted one woman and robbed a few others. With that going on in this area, people are certainly less likely to trust it is the police in a no-knock situation and I believe if a shooting situation developed (god forbid and you happened to live) a jury would support you. Solution? Eliminate no knock warrants.
    Mike1956 likes this.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I am a law-abiding U. S. citizen. I have no reason to expect the police to be bashing in my door, so I will presume they are imposters. Hesitating will cost me the best time-advantage I will have in repelling their breach. .. the moment they enter.
    This.

    Michael

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    I liked "Sixto's" idea of a "mexican standoff", but I have my doubts about how likely that would be to happen. I've thought about this quite a bit, there have been several threads regarding this subject over time...I don't like the thought of the outcome, but I'm afraid I would error on the side of defending myself and my wife. I wouldn't want to shoot an LEO, hell I wouldn't want to shoot anyone, but coming in my house... forcefully, I would meet force with force.
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
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  5. #19
    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
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    Well, I believe I have the solution! Most states and the federal government passed a law years ago that tacked on prison time to your sentence if you used a weapon in the commission of a felony. That has been a major deterrent, right? So, pass another law that adds additional time to your sentence impersonating a police officer, while armed, while illegally home invading... That will certainly get the crack heads, gang-bangers and meth heads undivided attention!

    Seriously though, in that scenaro I suspect a reasonable person is screwed. My first and natural reaction would be to immediately grab my HD weapon, S&W .357 or 12 ga. 870 pump. If you sleep as hard as I do it will take seconds to shake the cob webs out of your head, when they are shouting, "police, police,warrant". I know first hand how it would sound to me. Dennis1209, Dennis1209, wake up, roll over, you're snoring to loud, roll over. I respond to the wife I think, "huh huh, wad ya say, what"?

    This would be an excellent topic to your local newspapers "letters to the editor" and ask your local authorities official recommendations to such a topic.

  6. #20
    Ex Member Array Acecool's Avatar
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    LEO or not, you are bound by the laws. There are too many cases of people impersonating law enforcement to believe someone shouting they are the police. I have personally had a few issues with corrupt cops trying to threaten me in the past (caught 6-10 of them on video), luckily I was able to calm the situation down by reminding them of the laws of which they are bound by and even though I had no duty to retreat I left. I do support Law Enforcement and I won't let a few bad apples ruin the entire lot. It does not matter whether the intruder is an officer or not, if you break the law ( in this case: illegally obtaining a warrant and forcefully breaking into my home OR impersonating an officer and forcefully breaking into my home ) then you are a criminal in my home I will respond accordingly to ensure my survival.

    The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that if an officer is attempting to unlawfully arrest or detain you, you are allowed to use necessary force to ensure your freedom and survival. ( Disclaimer: Read up on it, interpret the ruling in your own way )

    Here is the first link on Google which I found containing some relevant information: Your Right To Resist Unlawful Arrest [Archive] - Calguns.net
    Last edited by Acecool; November 29th, 2011 at 04:00 PM. Reason: Added a clause

  7. #21
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    I'd demand proof that they're legitmate LEOs before I lower my weapon--and yelling "Police" isn't gonna hack it. This is a not-uncommon ploy here in S. FL used by BGs on an increasing basis.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  8. #22
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    Wow, this is an interesting thread, and a topic I have never considered until now. In my little cape cod the only bedroom is on the second floor and to get there you need to come up a long stairway that leads to a blind turn into the bedroom. If I heard all of the commotion of them breaking through my security door and coming I the steps, I would shoot anyone coming around the blind turn, then I would keep drilling rounds through the divider between the stairwell and my bedroom until I was able to deter them, or run out of ammo. Hopefully the former. I have 46 rounds of 9mm loaded up between the mag in my Glock 19 and the two reloads I keep on the nightstand. I wonder how fast I could reload under that type of stress? Honestly, I think I would be well and truly screwed in this situation.
    Fear the man with one gun. Especially if that gun is a Glock 19.

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    I like the idea of a Mexican Standoff but most likely by the time I figure out what's going on, assuming I have been in a dead sleep, they will have a shotty or AR in my face before I even have a chance to get out of bed. I have a small house so if a team of men rushed in, they would be in my bedroom in two seconds. I don't even think a personal protection dog would protect me in such a matter. The dog would get one or two of them but he wouldn't be able to stop five or more men at once.

    My guess is that my goose would be cooked, regardless of my weaponry or ammo stash. The only way I can see to heading this off is having early detection/warning so you would pretty much be ready for them before they even rush through the door.

    Just my humble opinion.
    jklowe48 likes this.

  10. #24
    Member Array Aiko's Avatar
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    I think we all have house alarms that would be screaming the second a door was opened or window broken. That is when my radar is on full alert, 2 AR's ready and 10mags loaded with 1500 rds backup and G19 on my hip. In all honesty, a raised weapon will result in LEO and our deaths more than likely but I guess the goal would be to have a fortified enough bedroom or home to buy enough time to verify LEO and as others have said stall the situation.

  11. #25
    Member Array RugerMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugerMike View Post
    Wow, this is an interesting thread, and a topic I have never considered until now. In my little cape cod the only bedroom is on the second floor and to get there you need to come up a long stairway that leads to a blind turn into the bedroom. If I heard all of the commotion of them breaking through my security door and coming I the steps, I would shoot anyone coming around the blind turn, then I would keep drilling rounds through the divider between the stairwell and my bedroom until I was able to deter them, or run out of ammo. Hopefully the former. I have 46 rounds of 9mm loaded up between the mag in my Glock 19 and the two reloads I keep on the nightstand. I wonder how fast I could reload under that type of stress? Honestly, I think I would be well and truly screwed in this situation.
    I had some time to reflect on this after I posted. I was cleaning up my basement and thinking about my reply to this thread. My gut reaction was that I would shoot reguardless of the fact that the OP said the breaching individuals would be yelling POLICE, WARRANT, and the like. I realized that I made one very basic subconscious assumption. I figure that the odds are much higher of this being fake, than having the cops serving a a no knock warrant on my property by accident. I do not live in a super nice area, but I know all of my neighbors to the extent that I would not expect them to be up to the level of illegal activity that gets you a no knock warrant. I guess as a good person I have a general trust of the police and that factors into my decision as well.

    I guess what I am saying is I made the split second decision that the odds are far greater of this being fake than real and that should be taken into account with my reply.
    Hoganbeg likes this.
    Fear the man with one gun. Especially if that gun is a Glock 19.

  12. #26
    Ex Member Array JBachman's Avatar
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    Hardened and fortified bunker here. Both entry doors are steel framed with reinforced steel doors. Not impossible to breach, but more difficult. I live in a suburb of Detroit. Unfortunately close to a major drug highway from Detroit to the burbs. No-knock drug warrants are quite common here. Although I have not heard of a police "oopsie", that's not to say it hasn't happened. If I fell victim, I cannot say how I'd react as I have had to fend off two home invaders. It was a good shot and no problems ensued... but if I heard someone kicking at my door again... who knows... a .308 will do a lot of damage - body armor or not.

  13. #27
    Ex Member Array JBachman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acecool View Post
    LEO or not, you are bound by the laws. There are too many cases of people impersonating law enforcement to believe someone shouting they are the police. I have personally had a few issues with corrupt cops trying to threaten me in the past (caught 6-10 of them on video), luckily I was able to calm the situation down by reminding them of the laws of which they are bound by and even though I had no duty to retreat I left. I do support Law Enforcement and I won't let a few bad apples ruin the entire lot. It does not matter whether the intruder is an officer or not, if you break the law ( in this case: illegally obtaining a warrant and forcefully breaking into my home OR impersonating an officer and forcefully breaking into my home ) then you are a criminal in my home I will respond accordingly to ensure my survival.

    The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that if an officer is attempting to unlawfully arrest or detain you, you are allowed to use necessary force to ensure your freedom and survival. ( Disclaimer: Read up on it, interpret the ruling in your own way )

    Here is the first link on Google which I found containing some relevant information: Your Right To Resist Unlawful Arrest [Archive] - Calguns.net
    IF... IF you are the victim of a defective warrant... just cooperate. (I would hope you know you have an active warrant) Do whatever they tell you. Then get the most expensive lawyer you can. The city I live in is still paying off a settlement where a police officer harassed and detained a LAW ABIDING citizen for exercising his right to open carry. There's another case a few cities over as well.

  14. #28
    Member Array db4usa's Avatar
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    It's a long hallway back to my bedroom with a fireplace for a backstop. 3 small dogs that rouse when there's any movement outside give me plenty of warning. I will find out if they're real LEOs or not. We had a US Marshall killed here recently durning a no knock. He ate an AK to the head. So, the stake outs and surveilance don't always guarantee a clean entry.
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  15. #29
    Member Array Blindeye's Avatar
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    The only "good" way to deal with this situation is a panic room in the bedroom.
    That's a luxury few of us can afford.

    I designed my new house with increasingly difficult barriers to unauthorized visitors, beginning with a fence, gate, locked inner and outer doors, locked stairway, and all living quarters one flight or two flights of stairs above the ground floor.
    It wouldn't keep out a no knock warrant, but it would take a good 5 minutes to get to us, even with a battering ram.

    I'd like to think that within that time frame I could figure out visually whether it's a legitimate (although misguided) LE group vs. a home invasion.
    I'm going to assume that barring a real, honest-to-God SHTF scenario, 12 men in black hoods with MP5 type weapons are there as representatives of some government (state, local, or federal).
    And for me, in that situation, resistance is futile.

  16. #30
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    Hate to say it, the only way to guard against this, whether warrant error or BG imposters, is with booby traps.
    I'm pretty sure they are illegal in unoccupied dwellings, but not so for your own home.

    I consider the possibility of both home invasion or police error quite low so I'm not going into the business of trapping my entries, but it is about the only way I can think of to slow things down enough to give you a chance to call 911 and find out what is really going on.

    BTW, you don't need lethal traps to slow things. Just be creative about it. Remove the floor boards in front of your door, cover hole with vinyl, and watch them get the instant tour of your basement. If that level of remodeling isn't suitable,
    you could try .... never mind; I'll leave it to you-all to decide how much of this is tongue in cheek and how much is serious advice.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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