No-Knock warrant - Page 3

No-Knock warrant

This is a discussion on No-Knock warrant within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hopyard Hate to say it, the only way to guard against this, whether warrant error or BG imposters, is with booby traps. ...

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  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Hate to say it, the only way to guard against this, whether warrant error or BG imposters, is with booby traps.
    I'm pretty sure they are illegal in unoccupied dwellings, but not so for your own home.

    I consider the possibility of both home invasion or police error quite low so I'm not going into the business of trapping my entries, but it is about the only way I can think of to slow things down enough to give you a chance to call 911 and find out what is really going on.

    BTW, you don't need lethal traps to slow things. Just be creative about it. Remove the floor boards in front of your door, cover hole with vinyl, and watch them get the instant tour of your basement. If that level of remodeling isn't suitable,
    you could try .... never mind; I'll leave it to you-all to decide how much of this is tongue in cheek and how much is serious advice.
    You're right.

    I didn't know its legal to booby trap your own home. I don't know how crazy I would get with this but its always good to know what your options are, etc.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    If they have the drop on you... your better off submiting. When professionals enter they will be shouting POLICE! POLICE! POLICE!... from entry to secure. In the event they are criminals and they have the drop on you... same thing. Give em what they ask for.

    Once it's began there isnt a lot you can do to stop it. Picking up a firearm will most probably have desasterous consiquences. Mistake or not, justified or not... Dead is dead.

    I agree 110%.
    Randy
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    You're right.

    I didn't know its legal to booby trap your own home. I don't know how crazy I would get with this but its always good to know what your options are, etc.
    That varies greatly from state to state, be very, very careful if even considering this.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    Having witnessed several of these no nock things in the hood over the years, first if it is the police, they will cover all exits that they can and bust in the windows at the same time the door goes. So if it is LE you won’t likely have any opportunity to do much outside of submit. If these things are not met and it isn’t a whole pile of people in bullet resistant vests with POLICE on the front then you best get to shooting.

    Now if you are on an upstairs flat that means that without ladders they will need to come up the stairs single file I would guess, never seen them do a second floor place, but if they don’t have the man power and the gear it’s a stick up would be my guess.

    Not a good place to be.

  5. #35
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    In 35 years as a cop (in one mid-large and one large department) I cannot bring to mind a SINGLE home invasion robbery in which the perpetrators posed as police and targeted innocent civilians. The "victims" were always crooks themselves (almost always drug dealers). A home invasion crew is not interested in Samsung TVs and toasters.....they want cash and drugs. I know, they may want your guns......but an unlikely scenario and one I never saw. Now on the other hand I DID see maybe a half dozen no knocks done on the WRONG house and on one of those occasions shots were exchanged and mercifully no one was killed. My point is this..........if you ARE NOT a thug ora crook, it is EXTREMELY unlikely there is going to be a home invasion at your castle. Although also unlikely but more possible is a police search warrant either a mistake or because of what someone in your household is doing without your knowledge. So if someone crashes in your door shouting POLICE it probably IS the police and if you start throwing lead in the direction of those voices you will probably end up dead. You survivors can then sue the city/ county if that makes you feel better about your choice.
    SIXTO, tns0038, bcvojak and 1 others like this.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    That varies greatly from state to state, be very, very careful if even considering this.
    Absolutely for sure you can not booby trap an unoccupied structure in Iowa. I lived there when that law was passed and know
    what transpired to cause it to be passed. I do not know if the law applied to an occupied dwelling as well; and I think not. But, that was 40 ish years back and I have no clue what IA law on the subject is today.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  7. #37
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    The house I had in Missouri had been built with antique, salvaged windows etc and the guy that was living there hadn't taken care of the house for 20+ years. So when I replaced the windows and sliding glass doors I use a extra wide gap double pane window and door made with a glass polycarbonate sandwich hurricane/security glass. One demo the suppler used was a window on saw horses 24" high and I was allowed to take a full overhead swing with a 15 pound sledge hammer which had no effect on the window so no LE breaching tool short of grenades is getting through. The front door had a storm door made with a single pane of the same glass with top and bottom dead bolts with a steel framed steel door installed with extra heavy 8" screws and also top and bottom dead bolts along with standard front dead bolt when locked. The short of it is NO ONE is getting in in just a couple seconds giving me plenty of time to deploy full defensive counter measures.

    I am renting a house in Colorado now, but when I purchase I will be looking at doing much the same thing.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Hate to say it, the only way to guard against this, whether warrant error or BG imposters, is with booby traps.
    I'm pretty sure they are illegal in unoccupied dwellings, but not so for your own home.

    .
    You might actually want to read the TX statutes on this. It says nothing about occupied or unoccupied dwellings.

    PC 9.44. USE OF DEVICE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. The justification
    afforded by Sections 9.41 and 9.43 applies to the use of a device
    to protect land or tangible, movable property if:
    (1) the device is not designed to cause, or known by the actor to
    create a substantial risk of causing, death or serious bodily injury; and
    (2) use of the device is reasonable under all the circumstances as
    the actor reasonably believes them to be when he installs the device.
    However as bachman has suggested, hardening ones exterior of the home is the single best way to slow or stop intruders from making entry without giving you some time to act to the situation.

    After they get in, it is going to be a bad bad deal all the way around. Hopefully things get sorted out before any lead starts to fly.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  9. #39
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    We had a crew here in South Texas that were wearing soft armor, one I believe may have had a plate carrier, that were kicking doors claiming to be LE. From what I understand, it was pretty clear they were not law enforcement since they were dirty little gangbangers, but that's beside the point. I know they hit a good number of homes here, but I don't know if they claimed they were police every time or not. When they were finally caught, they had pounds of meth, handguns and rifles, armor and a bunch of cash.

    Now, seeing as I've never been in this exact situation, I have absolutely NO CLUE how I'd react. In our last home, we had four security cameras, motion sensors for the lights and alarm system, reinforced doors (bedroom doors as well as front and rear exterior doors) and two dogs that thought they were guard dogs. When we go to bed at night, the mk18 and two handguns are very easily accessible. The television was also set that the cameras were displayed as soon as I turned it on. Maybe, with any luck, this would have given me that small window needed to at least identify who was trying to enter my home. Would I be thinking clearly enough to identify people dressed like law enforcement? I don't know. Hopefully, I would at least be able to see the police cars or the lowrider with "dubs" worth more than the $500 car and get some kind of clue... With my luck, they'd have been aware of the cameras and disabled them.

    Now, in the new house, I still do not have any type of video monitoring system set up. You'd think after an attempted robbery/home invasion/assault last year I'd have gotten everything up and running, but unfortunately that's not the case. The alarm has been set up since day one and all the doors and windows are reinforced and secured, but I'm lacking in a few areas where I wasn't before.

    Anyway, I guess I was drifting there as usual. Like I said, I really don't know what I'd do in that situation. What I do know for sure is that I need to identify who it is entering my house. I know there's absolutely no reason for law enforcement to raid my house. I also know, along with everyone else, that mistakes happen and don't always end in the favor of the home owner. I can't help but feel its even more likely with the LE here in South Texas.

    Well, I guess that wasn't very helpful. All I know is that I'm ready and willing to defend my family, my home and myself. I hope nothing like this ever happens to my family but if it does, I really hope no innocent people end up wounded or deceased.
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  10. #40
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    I guess that depends entirely on the definition of device? I need to go read that sometime, but just as one example-- innocently placed,
    I used to keep several rungs of barbed wire beneath my fence. The objective was to keep an unruly dog in, and as I didn't want the dog
    to get tangled in the barbed wire, I kept electric fencing forward. If someone hopped the fence they would have been slowed down. Don't know if that would or would not pass muster as a "device" or "booby trap."

    Or, going to the other extreme, what you rig need not cause injury of any kind. Its a bit late for Halloween, but a mannequin dressed in black tacticool holding a black toy rifle would probably draw a lot of interesting attention from adrenaline driven home invaders of whatever sort.

    The point I'm making is the trick is that you need to slow the action down sufficiently to make the 911 call and get a response.
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  11. #41
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    Barbed wire, or electric fence for animal control certainly fall under "reasonable" item 2 in the code section, as they relate to what ordinary people do to control animals. I used to have a 15 mile electric fence charger on my yard when we had the critter in my avatar. Would it zap the snot out of you, yep. Did it ever kill or seriously injure any of the neighbor kids who wanted to pet Farron. Nope.

    Removing boards on ones front porch and placing items to disguise the hole which puts someone into one's basement is definately not reasonable or ordinary for people to do. It certainly could cause serious injury or death.

    I don't think the postman or UPS delivery, or girl selling Girl Scout Cookies would find it to be ordinary for 99.99% of the homes they deliver to or make sales calls to.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Barbed wire, or electric fence for animal control certainly fall under "reasonable" item 2 in the code section, as they relate to what ordinary people do to control animals. I used to have a 15 mile electric fence charger on my yard when we had the critter in my avatar. Would it zap the snot out of you, yep. Did it ever kill or seriously injure any of the neighbor kids who wanted to pet Farron. Nope.

    Removing boards on ones front porch and placing items to disguise the hole which puts someone into one's basement is definately not reasonable or ordinary for people to do. It certainly could cause serious injury or death.

    I don't think the postman or UPS delivery, or girl selling Girl Scout Cookies would find it to be ordinary for 99.99% of the homes they deliver to or make sales calls to.
    First off maybe I didn't make it plain that the hole was in the floorboard of the interior entry, where the postman and others uninvited, would not accidentally find themselves.

    Second--
    While that proposal earlier was said tongue in cheek, given that most homes in TX don't have basements, and moreover given that few people are going to remove the floor boards from their entry way even if they have a basement.

    It is worth discussing what sorts of devices can be used in the entry way, or beneath interior windows to slow someone who breaches through. I'm sure folks have thought of all sorts of stuff from the insane (rigged shotty which is what I think the penal code you referenced is really speaking to) to the relatively benign, such as dropping of netting or placement of a cactus garden.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  13. #43
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    Alarm systems, deadbolts, security cameras, security bars, and even landscaping whether inside or outside the home, are not devices designed to cause serious bodily harm or death. They are designed to make it more difficult for an unauthorized person to gain entry or to alert homeowners/authorities of an intrusion. These should be considered in "hardening" ones home to invasion.

    The statutes say nothing about the device being inside or outside of the premisis or property. Creating trip falls, digging pits and camouflaging them, or altering ones home with the intention of causing serious injury or death would definately be a violation of 42.035 by my understanding.

    My understanding for the prohibition on a "device" being used to protect property that is designed to cause harm, is that the device can not determine what a persons intentions are, where a person should be able to. The device will be indiscriminant in its action regardless if it is your 90 yr old mother/grandmother or the neighbor kid who kicked his ball across your yard, or the criminal who really intends to steal your stuff. The device, if triggered/tripped will act automatically.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Absolutely for sure you can not booby trap an unoccupied structure in Iowa. I lived there when that law was passed and know
    what transpired to cause it to be passed. I do not know if the law applied to an occupied dwelling as well; and I think not. But, that was 40 ish years back and I have no clue what IA law on the subject is today.
    You could have the never ending floor project that ran out of money right at the entry way. So your wife just threw a piece of vinyl over it so it didn't look so bad.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
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  15. #45
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    Booby traps indicate premeditation, and premeditation gets you found guilty.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

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