No-Knock warrant

This is a discussion on No-Knock warrant within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; All the stuff in the news lately about "no-knock" warrants being executed on the wrong homes has got me thinking. And I really don't now ...

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Thread: No-Knock warrant

  1. #1
    Member Array stromboy84's Avatar
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    No-Knock warrant

    All the stuff in the news lately about "no-knock" warrants being executed on the wrong homes has got me thinking. And I really don't now what I'd do in that situation. So here's the scenario:

    You are a completely law-abiding citizen. You are asleep in bed one night, and all of the sudden, your front door crashes open, and armed men enter your home. You roll over, off the bed, and grab your HD gun, whatever it may be. As you hear them coming up the stairs, you hear them shout that they are police. But you can't figure out why they would be doing this to you and your family. You know if you leave your bedroom with a gun, and they're police, you may very well end up shot (I know that's debatable, but in recent examples in the news, it's happened). But what if it's actually a home invasion, under the guise of a warrant being served, in order to get you to drop your gun and let your guard down?

    I know I would have a very hard time putting my gun down, without very convincing proof that it was actually police. But in the heat of the moment, proof may not be forthcoming, and refusing to put your fun gun may have fatal consequences.

    So, what do you do? I realize there's probably not a right answer to this question, but I'd like your input.

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    The first person who goes off on a foil hat tangent about a type of warrant will catch points; address the OP's question, not your opinion of a type of warrant. Carry on.

    I would do everything I could to induce a "Mexican Standoff" to buy myself time to figure things out. How that would actually take place is highly dependent on a number of impossible to foresee factors that would be different for each one of us.
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    The Min Pins would hear them outside and wake up the mastiffs, giving us time to bolt and wedge the strong door of the safe room as we call 911 to communicate with the breachers. I'd feel really bad if the 4 mastiffs were to hurt a K9. When their ram doesn't work, and they start shooting through the door, 12 ga slugs are going to go the other way until the perps leave or swat decides to negotiate. I know, I know, you're supposed to positively identify your target, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Besides, the tin foil is in the basement next to the reloading bench.
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    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    I can't see anyway out of it that isn't "lose". I, as a law abiding citizen and lawful gun owner would most definitely react to my door being kicked in, due to the setup of my Apt. and the fact that a firearm is always within reach, shots would be fired, if not by me than by the people facing me. Being a recipient of this type of entry to my home and not knowing If the identity of these people is actually LE, and why real LE would consider doing this anyway. I think my only hope would be that nothing was planted after I was shot and that the offending agency paid dearly for not passing out teddy bears and hugs after the fact.
    Last edited by SIXTO; November 29th, 2011 at 10:16 AM.

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    If they have the drop on you... your better off submiting. When professionals enter they will be shouting POLICE! POLICE! POLICE!... from entry to secure. In the event they are criminals and they have the drop on you... same thing. Give em what they ask for.

    Once it's began there isnt a lot you can do to stop it. Picking up a firearm will most probably have desasterous consiquences. Mistake or not, justified or not... Dead is dead.

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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    I read this scenario and you watch enough "cops" and you really do wonder about this situation. You really have no alternative but to submit. Trouble is that the BGs are starting to use this method to gain entry and get an upper hand on you before you fully react the way you would if they were not acting like police. I can understand where this method of arrest is coming from but find it to be an absolute affront to anyone---and that even includes the BGs. When I see this on "cops" I rarely see BGs armed to the teeth just "waiting"--what I do see nore times than not is a child crying and scared out of their heads. Yah, yah yah--they had time to toss the drugs, too bad.
    Last edited by SIXTO; November 29th, 2011 at 10:07 AM.
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    Senior Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
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    The only possible scenario I can think of is to make it impossible for anybody to come down my hallway.I will lay down a curtain of lead in thier direction while my Lady is calling 911 and hope for the best. They`ll need a rocket launcher to get me out of my bedroom as I keep up with the 00 buck loads.I`ll probably need a new home after that,if I survive. It`l be ugly all the way around.

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    As for the original question you are in a no win situation; I know I am or would be, because I am very law abiding and don't even have anything except for my very discreet firearm collection that criminals would want.

    As for give criminals what they want: remeber the Petit home invasion
    Last edited by SIXTO; November 29th, 2011 at 10:05 AM.
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    Good grief guys, the thread is a "What would you do", IT IS NOT ABOUT THE TYPE OF WARRANT. Like many topics, this one always turns bad, especially when people start showing their ignorance and what they learned by watching TV.
    I really do hate passing out points to otherwise solid members, but I have no other tool to make my point as clear as it needs to be. I gave the warning, here comes the points.- carry on.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    This was my post the other day on the thread about home invasion: by 'posers'.

    If, for any possible reason in the universe, police make a 'no-knock' breach into my house I'll probably never know it.
    I carry at home.
    When I start shooting to protect myself and other family from 'home invaders', I know if it is LE I will be shredded by their suppressive fire.
    No-knock means no-chance for the person in the home. ... by design.

    I am a law-abiding U. S. citizen. I have no reason to expect the police to be bashing in my door, so I will presume they are imposters. Hesitating will cost me the best time-advantage I will have in repelling their breach. .. the moment they enter.

    If, on the other hand, they knock first and I have the time to confirm with 9-1-1 that for some reason the police are indeed at my address, we'll exchange 'code words' before I open up to them.


    ....... yeah, I know .... good luck with that!
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    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    If someone has broken down my door and because I am a law abiding citizen who has no justifiable reason to have his home invaded, here is how I would react. Whoever it is who has breached my castle, LEO or criminal has violated my home unlawfully, so I would...

    Allow my Doberman who has probably already gotten up and rushed down the stairs to meet the threat to do her job. She will at least give me a few seconds of reaction time. Criminals may be scared off or LEO or ciminals may shoot her. I grab my 870 magnum which is attached to my bed, loaded with 3" magnum slugs and get behind my bed, chamber a round and take aim waiting for the first invader to come into my line of sight. BANG BANG BANG

    I am not waiting for anyone to identify themselves. I won't believe that they are police, they have absolutely no reason to be here. They're in my house, I'm going to defend it. I have no sympathy for anyone who gets harmed invading my home.

    If it was just a "typical" home invasion I would not reach for the 870 because of fear of overpenetration. But in the case of a real or faked LEO breech I assume they have body armor, and even though my magnum slug won't necessarily penetrate their body armor, it will turn their flesh underneath that armor into soup.

    If you bring hell to my home, I'm doing my best to send you there, whomever you are.
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    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    The little I know about police breeching tactics comes from stories of LEO's I know in Chicago and St. Louis that have done this. They tell me that the police usually have observed the building and from experience they have a pretty good idea where the bedrooms etc are and the general layout. Then they enter so fast with so many people through multiple entrances that in a regular sized house it is seconds from entry to standing in your bedroom. I know that if I am sleeping and there is a home invasion it will take me a few seconds to comprehend what is happening and begin to take defensive action. So I will assume that the officer will be pointing his gun at me before I am even ready to defend. Submission will be my only option. In the case of BG's faking a police breech I am relying on the fact that they are not as well trained and will not bring a 20 man team to clear and secure my house in seconds. I feel that the extra time allowed in this case will allow me to respond with the appropriate welcome. For those that believe they can respond to this scenario I congratulate you, you have done either an incredible amount of training, or live in a hardened bunker.

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    I like the suggestion of going for a "Mexican standoff" (assuming I'm quick enough not to just get over-run).

    Honestly, I can't imagine me shooting anything or anyone without identifying the target first, even (or should I say especially) in my own home.

    Odds are though, if they are pro's and I was asleep, they'll have me like a deer in the headlights. I'm counting on the common B&E thugs to be a little sloppier (and deader).
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    The Ruby Ridge fiasco comes to mind, if I can Im defending whats mine, one would have to assume knowing your a law abiding citizen that your in the middle of a home invasion bang! bang! is all you would here.

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    If your post disappears here, its because it is off topic. No further explanations or warnings will be given.
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