Scary situation! Need some advice - Page 4

Scary situation! Need some advice

This is a discussion on Scary situation! Need some advice within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott This drunk fools' buddies weren't concerned enough with his or your safety to stop/deflect him until it just about turned ...

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Thread: Scary situation! Need some advice

  1. #46
    Member Array docdozer's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    This drunk fools' buddies weren't concerned enough with his or your safety to stop/deflect him until it just about turned deadly--given that fact--how do we know that they weren't intent upon aggravated assult/theft???

    It sounds like given the circumstances and the rapidity with which it happened, you only had two easy choices, run the fool over or stop. To keep from running over a foolish pedestrian, in the interest of everybody's safety, you stopped.

    Now you see there are more of them and they are converging on you--you now have a potential disparity of force situation. And, as previsouly pointed out, he was sober enough to notice your gun hand and stop dead in his tracks. This suggests to me that he and his buds weren't nearly as drunk as they let on--which also suggests to me that thier original intentions were not so nice nor innocent.....

    I think that they were lucky to not be looking down the muzzle--and while I may be flamed for this, I don't think that I would have faulted you for actually drawing and pointing in, for all the reasons above.....although if you HAD drawn, I would highly suggest being the very first one to dial 911 and report being threatened by a group of 4 or more guys.
    This is exactly how I see this as well. The pepper spray argument doesn't work for me because you have NO idea IF he is drunk and foolish or not when he is coming at you. That information is only available in the monday morning QB version. I think you did the right thing and it saved you. I ride too, and all kind of emergencies can happen and you can't always figure it out that fast and just accelerate your way out of it. A 180 is going to be hard to do especially if you are rattled and you risk dumping it or missing the car that didn't stop coming in the opposite direction. IF you can, then straight forward would be the better option.
    There's something happening here
    What it is ain't exactly clear
    There's a man with a gun over there
    Telling me I got to beware

  2. #47
    Member Array HoganLongfellow's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    Way down south
    Quote Originally Posted by Speculator View Post
    My concern would be fumbling with a gun (though you didn't draw) while straddling your bike. You're reduced to one handed steering, you're stuck in place (since it's difficult to dismount when twisting to prepare to draw), and you've now got a big decision loop - who's doing what, who's a threat. Much better to stop the bike and prepare to accelerate away, and of course, anticipating.

    What's puzzling is that the guy who ran out into the street would not have done that if there was a car involved - he had, in his drunken state, to discern there was a bike, decide to run out in the street, avoid traffic.

    Not saying OP was untruthful, but it seems like something's missing from this account.

    Yeah, I have no idea why he ran out. My best guess is he saw us pulling out of the garage, maybe he heard us and that got his attention?

    And remember he did almost get smacked by a city bus (it was REALLY close) so I don't know what he was thinking....

    now that I've had a few days to relax and replay it I'm sure it wasn't innocent. I think this clown was drinking with his buddies and was going to throw a sucker punch (or worse) at us to show how "bad" he is.

  3. #48
    Member Array steelhawk's Avatar
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    Feb 2009
    I think you handled it well. You were out-numbered and it appears that the guys were perhaps not so drunk and that they meant you some harm. Getting into position to draw made them change their mind.

  4. #49
    eb is offline
    Ex Member Array eb's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    I don't think you did anything wrong OP. You didn't pull the gun, or even display it. As you've mentioned this happened in a split second, so you did what you could. This talk of pepper spray in this particular situation I think is unrealistic. I do agree having a less than deadly alternative is good in general (I really should do this myself).

    However, you have to consider that in a case like this that develops immediately, that you have very little time to make any decision at all. People are getting nuttier these days, and theres no telling if he could have produced his own weapon and there would be no way to fully assess the situation that quickly. Does anyone really want to make that 2 second decision to pull your pepper spray and end up having the other guy draw down on you with a gun? I doubt it...

  5. #50
    Member Array db4usa's Avatar
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    Apr 2010
    St. Louis, MO
    My bike is a highway machine and weighs nearly 1,000 #'s. As others have stated on here, it's imperative to continually keep your SA about you and look for a way out. I'm not sure I would want to be doing too much manuvering with a 20 ton bus in the picture. The OP did good by shutting down and maintaining his 3 point stance with his ride. I usually carry with a shoulder holster so my thottle hand needs to be clear. Bikers are especially vulnerable and need spidey senses to stay alive. Good job diffusing a potential bad scene.
    Kimber PCII .45
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  6. #51
    Member Array skilled's Avatar
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    Dec 2011
    My advice would have been not to stop at all. The problem is that when we carry we can be in the Mindset that a gun is our first line of defense. Its always there ready for use. In some states just the presentation of a gun can be lethal force. And thatís when things can start to escalate. You must use the amount of force that is justified to stop an attack. And there was no proof that you were attacked . Now what you will find is that a lot of people, like guy and his buds, can be good liars. And then it goes like this. My friend just walked up to him and the guy pulled a gun. He has witness and a lot of them. You could be looking at an arrest or jail time if you donít have a good lawyer. You have the gun they donít have one. You could of left put you didnít. You were a good size guy maybe with fight training, he was small and skinny Ösee my point here?
    Avoid if at all possible!!!

  7. #52
    Member Array Speculator's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    Ever hear of disparity of force? Five guys running at one guy who is blocked in. Thats a justified shoot. Surely a pistol instructor who teaches a defensive shooting course that qualifies people to get their permits should know what it is.
    Someday we will always have even easier methods of recording and these things will be on video to support the victim's position and actions. In fact, I routinely video my bicycle rides and have gotten several car-related incidents. I think if I was riding a MC I'd want a helmet cam. Have you thought about that?

  8. #53
    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
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    Apr 2010
    Boise, Id
    I think the most important lesson here is that your weapon was an automatic response. Not drawn, not even flashed, but is was part of your mind and body response that was automatic. Many many years ago while doing some law enforcement work we were walking away from a persons house in which we needed to make contact. It was late and the person was not pleased to see us. We finished our business and were walking away. A tiny dog bolted from the house and bit my pant leg and held on. In that instant I placed my hand on my duty weapon. I did not draw or even release my holster. It was instinctive, automatic and done with out thought. After years of thinking about that my conclusion is that, good, I have tought my self to seek the weapon when threatened. This is long before pepper spray and tasers. My point is I had tranined myself enough to react automatically, to not become distracted by the events. I believe that is step one in being successful in defending ones self.
    In a gun fight, you can not miss fast enough, to catch up.

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array shadowwalker's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    Ghost Ridge USA
    I won't say if your right or not, you were there and everyone has thoughts as to what to do but everyone in that spot will do what they believe is the right action to take. The way you reacted I see no harm no foul and you will have to decide if it happens again will I do the same thing

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    May 2006
    Shelby County TN
    HoganLongfellow, Having just read this thread for the first time, I think you did fine. What you did stopped any threat that was there and no one even saw a gun. I say good job.
    ,=====o00o _
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Nov 2009
    charleston, SC
    Motorcycle, car whatever. You have a tremendous advantage of getting away from trouble, which should be priority number one before imminent danger becomes a fact. I would think that situational awareness should obviously include not only what could happen to you as you go about your business on foot or motorized, but what you should be thinking about doing as you are on foot or in a car or on a motorcycle as you see things unfold in front of you. Leaving space to pull out and looking for lanes of escape come to mind if you are motorized--they should be your first priority and as I write this, I will try to catalog this fact in my mind and make sure as I drive around and stop at a light or in traffic to leave that space that might allow me to leave a situation before I am in a situation.

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