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Scary situation! Need some advice

6K views 55 replies 37 participants last post by  kelcarry 
#1 ·
I'll admit, this one scared me. It just goes to show you NEVER know.

This story happened to me about 4 hour ago. It really bothered me and the more I replayed it the more it bugged me. All of this happened VERY quickly. I'll be as detailed as possible, but remember this all happened in about 5 seconds.

I was out riding my motorcycle with my buddy Chris downtown. We stopped and grabbed some dinner, it was about 7pm when we started to head back home. There was a football game in town today so there were some people still lingering in the streets after the game. As we turned out of the parking deck we headed north towards an intersection which was about 1/10 mile ahead of us. There was very little traffic except for a bus coming in our direction in the opposite lane.

We started to accelerate slowly and all of a sudden I see a guy, mid/late 20's, waving his arms and screaming STOP! He runs out into the street right in front of the bus (this happened at a crosswalk at the intersection) The bus slams on his brakes and had to swerve into the other lane to avoid nailing him. He continues screaming STOP STOP STOP while waving his arms wildly over his head. I notice this and I immediately assume he's drunk yelling at someone behind me because he's looking in my direction. I had NO idea who this guy was, and I was positive he didn't know me. He gets directly in my path and stops. Staring directly at me he is flailing his arms and screaming STOP at the top of his lungs. I was already going slow, maybe 10mph, so I slowed down to avoid hitting this guy. As I slow to almost a complete stop he starts running at me. He wasn't saying anything, he just had a drunken look on his face and he was headed in my direction. It was at this time I notice 3 of his friends approaching in a half-trot, and one more of his buddies staying on the corner staring in my direction.

All in one motion I applied the brakes, hit the kill switch with my right thumb (I couldn't remember if i was in gear or not, so I didn't want to risk letting go, popping the clutch and dropping the bike - that would not be good if i needed to make a quick getaway), straddled the bike and stood up. My left hand immediately covered my Ruger that I keep at 9o'clock. At this time the guy immediately stops dead in his tracks, and his friends start screaming "he's drunk, he's drunk, we've been drinking all day watching football, he's drunk etc, etc". I literally didn't open my mouth once, I just stood there for a second, covering my pistol. I never swept my sweatshirt, I never had to draw - no one ever saw a gun at all...I just had my hand covering the pistol and I was ready. His buddies grab him and continue to cross the street, they all just looked like they were shocked that I had a pistol. I didn't say a word, they all scurried away repeating (yelling) "man he's drunk, that's all, he's been drinking all day watching football".

By this time the light had turned red, so since they were walking away I didn't feel like it was necessary to run the light. As the light turned green we pulled away and headed home.

I'll admit, it was unsettling. I think what bothered me the most was not knowing what his intentions were. The first thought I had was he was about to throw a haymaker at me and try to knock me off my bike. I didn't know if he liked my bike so much maybe he thought he needed to take it for a ride? It really wasn't until I noticed 4 of them approaching me that I started to think that this could be REALLY bad. When you're on a bike you are NOT in a position to engage someone in a fight. You will get knocked over, and you will probably end up on the bottom of a 200 degree engine while someone is stomping your face in.

After that I started to second guess myself. I thought - Maybe he just wanted a closer look? Maybe he was going to complement me. I started feeling very guilty then wondered if I'd overreacted by reaching for my pistol.

I asked my buddy Chris if he thought I'd overreacted and he immediately said he had reached for his Glock at the exact same time. He felt that I'd done EXACTLY what anyone should have done. Chris said he assumed I knew them the way they came running at me, he thought they were buddies from work or something, because there is no way a stranger would do that. Once they got closer and I reacted, he realized that I didn't know them, Chris said he also thought the guy was about to clobber me.

I relayed the story to my brother and this was his insight: Have you ever seen a bike you thought was so cool you were willing to run out in traffic to get a closer look at it? Obviously the answer is NO. Have you ever drank too much, then wanted to hit someone so bad that you'd be willing to run out in traffic to get a cheap-shot? Well, I never have, but I could see that happening! He concluded that the guy probably saw us pulling out of the garage and was going to try to try to punk the "tough-guy bikers" in front of his buddies. (just to clarify we are in no way tough guy bikers haha)

I have replayed the incident a thousand times in my head. It all happened so fast - I just reacted. I didn't want to be a victim and my bike get stolen by some drunken punks...but I also didn't want to have to draw my pistol and shoot anyone!

I think the main lesson I learned is to NEVER stop. If I would have been going a little faster, or had a little more room to maneuver I would have kept going...but he had me pinned in and I didn't want to wreck and injure both of us.

What do you guys think? did I overreact? I know it's hard to tell b/c no one was there, but any feedback is appreciated!
 
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#2 ·
Since no deadly threat was presented you may want to use this as a good reason to add a less than lethal alternative to a firearm such as pepper spray. Weak side and if he kept coming then use some chemical persuasion to get past him and roll.

Things like this do have a tendency to unnerve you but you lived through it without ending up in the morgue or jail. Round out the tool box and enjoy.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the story.
In my mind, you did exactly what you had to do to go home, no more and no less. Drunk or not you still don't know what their real intentions were..... But whatever they were doesn't matter now. Good Job!
 
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#6 ·
I'll admit, this one scared me. It just goes to show you NEVER know....
There was very little traffic except for a bus coming in our direction in the opposite lane.

We started to accelerate slowly and all of a sudden I see a guy, mid/late 20's, waving his arms and screaming STOP! He runs out into the street right in front of the bus (this happened at a crosswalk at the intersection) The bus slams on his brakes and had to swerve into the other lane to avoid nailing him. He continues screaming STOP STOP STOP while waving his arms wildly over his head. I notice this and I immediately assume he's drunk yelling at someone behind me because he's looking in my direction. I had NO idea who this guy was, and I was positive he didn't know me. He gets directly in my path and stops. Staring directly at me he is flailing his arms and screaming STOP at the top of his lungs. I was already going slow, maybe 10mph, so I slowed down to avoid hitting this guy. As I slow to almost a complete stop he starts running at me. He wasn't saying anything, he just had a drunken look on his face and he was headed in my direction. It was at this time I notice 3 of his friends approaching in a half-trot, and one more of his buddies staying on the corner staring in my direction.

All in one motion I applied the brakes, hit the kill switch with my right thumb (I couldn't remember if i was in gear or not, so I didn't want to risk letting go, popping the clutch and dropping the bike - that would not be good if i needed to make a quick getaway), straddled the bike and stood up. My left hand immediately covered my Ruger that I keep at 9o'clock....

I think the main lesson I learned is to NEVER stop. If I would have been going a little faster, or had a little more room to maneuver I would have kept going...but he had me pinned in and I didn't want to wreck and injure both of us.

What do you guys think? did I overreact? I know it's hard to tell b/c no one was there, but any feedback is appreciated!
Sounds like you're on a 4-lane (at least) on your bike with no traffic oncoming since the bus is stopped in front of you. "Never stop" sounds like a winner because a moving target is much harder to hit. If anything, I think you under-reacted with your driving. Might you have pulled a U turn to avoid stopping, if you're truly pinned in your current direction of travel? You did fine with ready on the grip of your Ruger. Glad it worked out for you. Relax.
 
#7 ·
Sounds like a set up that failed. Why were his "buddies" not yelling for him to get out of the street? If he was really that drunk would he have noticed you putting your hand on your gun?

I am not a bike rider so don't know what you could have done. But it you could have gotten around him or even turned around yourself that would be my advise.

Chance he will get your tag number and claimed you threaten him with a gun. Therefore, it might have been wise for you to call the police. Those who call police first are generally considered the victim.
 
#11 ·
My thoughts on attempting to drive by the guy is that it might be easier for the drunk to unseat you if your moving forward. A good clothesline stiff arm as you drive by and your going down. Then your on the ground, possible injured and the guy and his friends could just jump on you. I think stopping and gaining a good footing is a good decision.
Putting you hand on the gun, ready to draw was also good. By not actually drawing you did not risk a brandishing charge and we still ready to go if needed. Hopefully the guys buddies will sober him up and tell him to stop being a jerk, explain how close he came to getting shot.
 
#12 ·
My brother and his friends used to like to ride bikes (i.e., bicycles) as their main means of transportation in a rough east-coast city. Courier style, no brakes, etc. Every now and then, as they were peddling along in a less-than-great neighborhood, someone would unfold himself from a front stoop and seem to be trying to intercept them, whether as a mugging or showing off for his friends or whatever. My brother was talking to one of his fellow cyclists about this, and trying to figure out what the best response is (you're a little vulnerable, because some of those streets are narrow, so a person on foot has a decent chance of intercepting you). His friend said that's an easy one: get low, get up on your pedals, speed up, aim right for the guy, and watch him switch his plan from attack to getting the hell out of the way.

I'm not saying that would be appropriate here, but it does seem—given the whole risk of clotheslining—that you are least vulnerable on a two-wheeled vehicle when you have that front wheel between you and the possible attacker. Now, if it's a drunk, will he recognize the spot he's in? Possibly not. Judgment call.
 
#15 ·
Difficult situation to advise on. I would point out that some people here have suggested putting his hand on his gun would be deadly force. But most states make a distinction between "deadly force" and "threat of deadly force." Even if he had drawn his gun and pointed it right at the drunk man, it would still only be considered "threat of deadly force" unless he pulled the trigger. Being that they were outnumbered, I'd say disparity of force was present and I doubt any jury would convict somebody over using threat of deadly force in this situation.

The main problem is determining what their motives were. Nobody knows for sure. But it seemed pretty obvious that they were watching closely and recognized the defense posture of reaching for a gun. Had the OP waited any longer or been less obvious about what he was doing, things might have escalated quickly and there would have been no going back. As it is, everybody got to go home without anyone being hurt or in jail.
 
#16 ·
Thanks to the OP for sharing. You've described one of my "what if's" almost to a "T". Lots to think about here. I wonder what this idiot would've done if you tried to duck/manuever/accelerate around him?...assuming you had the room and wherewithall to perform such a manuever. I'm also assuming that your bike weighs around 700+ pounds, which can be tricky to handle at slow speeds unless you've had special training, but especially if you're attempting this one-handed. Not a good situation to be in, to say the least. Given the situation, I probably would've done the same thing. You had the presence of mind to hit the kill switch. I might've also put the kick stand down if I thought I needed to bail or wasn't able to hold the bike up. The reality is, when riding a motorcycle, you are definitely at a physical disadvantage. If you haven't already, take a look at what happens to a LEO on his bike while he is patrolling through the OWS crowd of idiots.

I'm assuming your strong hand is your left hand, which is the hand that operates the clutch. If you absolutely had to, you could still accelerate (away) while holding your weapon in your left hand. Since I carry on my RH side when I ride, which of course is the throttle hand, I would not have that option if I had to "go for it". Practicably speaking, the only way I would be able to access my gun while on my bike is if I was at a dead stop or I got off the bike. Otherwise, it stays holstered.
 
#17 ·
Situational Awareness is critical on a motorcycle, you must always have an "out." Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't (mine didn't but that's another story).

Your out could have been a 180° turn, you were going 10 mph or less... Drunk has bus and traffic oncoming stopped? nothing behind you? Take off.

Other than that I think you did pretty good. You are right about the bike being a hindrance in slow speed confrontations, but the advantage to the bike is maneuverability. Try to get out of situations before they occur.

Riding is a lot like carrying a gun... SA and Avoidance are the two things that will keep you out of situations... once you were stopped you did fine. You covered your weapon, just like you cover your brakes when you think you might have to use them... since it was never pulled or exposed, no one knew you had a gun... you could have been pulling a "Blart."
 
#18 ·
I'm of the general mindset that my default reaction to bad situations on the motorcycle is to accelerate my way out of them.

I've driven on sidewalks (to avoid a nut running at me), run a few red lights (when lost in a bad part of Atlanta, and the locals were approaching me), even driven down a shoulder in waist-high weeds & brush at about 50 mph to avoid hitting the back of the car that slammed on the brakes in front of me.

Having not been in the OP's situation, I will not comment, other than to say that the last thing that I'm going to do in a bad situation is kill the engine.

I carry when I'm on the bike, but that is mainly for protection while I'm off the bike (gas stations, etc.). My primary tool on the bike, is my bike.
 
#22 ·
This drunk fools' buddies weren't concerned enough with his or your safety to stop/deflect him until it just about turned deadly--given that fact--how do we know that they weren't intent upon aggravated assult/theft???

It sounds like given the circumstances and the rapidity with which it happened, you only had two easy choices, run the fool over or stop. To keep from running over a foolish pedestrian, in the interest of everybody's safety, you stopped.

Now you see there are more of them and they are converging on you--you now have a potential disparity of force situation. And, as previsouly pointed out, he was sober enough to notice your gun hand and stop dead in his tracks. This suggests to me that he and his buds weren't nearly as drunk as they let on--which also suggests to me that thier original intentions were not so nice nor innocent.....

I think that they were lucky to not be looking down the muzzle--and while I may be flamed for this, I don't think that I would have faulted you for actually drawing and pointing in, for all the reasons above.....although if you HAD drawn, I would highly suggest being the very first one to dial 911 and report being threatened by a group of 4 or more guys.
 
#46 ·
This is exactly how I see this as well. The pepper spray argument doesn't work for me because you have NO idea IF he is drunk and foolish or not when he is coming at you. That information is only available in the monday morning QB version. I think you did the right thing and it saved you. I ride too, and all kind of emergencies can happen and you can't always figure it out that fast and just accelerate your way out of it. A 180 is going to be hard to do especially if you are rattled and you risk dumping it or missing the car that didn't stop coming in the opposite direction. IF you can, then straight forward would be the better option.
 
#23 ·
Interesting scenario and story but, I a somewhat confused by the apparently contradictory statements which I have underlined in the abridge version below.


I'll admit, this one scared me. It just goes to show you NEVER know.

This story happened to me .....

My left hand immediately covered my Ruger that I keep at 9o'clock. At this time the guy immediately stops dead in his tracks, and his friends start screaming "he's drunk, he's drunk, we've been drinking all day watching football, he's drunk etc, etc". I literally didn't open my mouth once, I just stood there for a second, covering my pistol. I never swept my sweatshirt, I never had to draw - no one ever saw a gun at all...I just had my hand covering the pistol and I was ready. His buddies grab him and continue to cross the street, they all just looked like they were shocked that I had a pistol. I didn't say a word, they all scurried away repeating (yelling) "man he's drunk, that's all, he's been drinking all day watching football".

..... any feedback is appreciated!
 
#24 ·
bbqgrill-

No contradiction at all, only an idiot or fool could mistake the "draw stroke" for anything but what it is...An armed man getting ready to draw his gun, presence of the gun is assumed.
 
#26 ·
I read no contradiction at all either.
I did not read that there was even the begining of a draw stroke he did not even sweep his cover garment; that is hardly indicitive of the presence of a weapon. My bad if I am reading too much into it but, I don't read where the "drunks" would have assumed a weapon under the described scenario.
 
#27 ·
I have had a bike since I turned 18 and my parents could not tell me no. I have never hit anyone or anything but have several friends that have hit critters from deer to dogs. None of them actually aimed at the animal but all went down either from the handlebars being ripped from their hands, or an unrecoverable tank slapper (physics says in some circumstances the forces at work will cause the bars to swing back and forth faster and faster slamming from one steering stop to the other) or a slide and lay down or high side. Given that some of these were caused by 50 pound dogs I don't think you would fair better vs 200 pound person. As for running up on the sidewalk unless the curbs are very small it is not an easy maneuver on a street bike, again due to the design of the bike you are more likely to have the bars yanked unless you hit the curb close to perpendicular. I think in the given situation you did the right thing by stopping and gaining a solid base. With at least 5 unknown individuals taking an aggressive posture you did the right thing in preparing to defend yourself. One charging and at least 4 following a few steps behind, I say good job. If you are looking at this you had the same reaction as your buddy and he was the only other person that was actually there. I think it would have to be a severely anti DA to try to bring charges in a 5 vs 1 situation.
 
#28 ·
to me, it all sounds like you were situationally aware, have good reactions and instincts, and was prepared if something turned south in a hurry...

All good.

See no problem @ all.

The only thing I would do differently, is when / if f I hit the kill switch, I automatically kick down the side stand in case I need to get off , or to do so in a hurry. If you take off, it's purely just kicking the side stand up as you take off (if it doesn't flip up all on it's own). LOL
 
#38 ·
to me, it all sounds like you were situationally aware, have good reactions and instincts, and was prepared if something turned south in a hurry...

All good.

See no problem @ all.

The only thing I would do differently, is when / if f I hit the kill switch, I automatically kick down the side stand in case I need to get off , or to do so in a hurry. If you take off, it's purely just kicking the side stand up as you take off (if it doesn't flip up all on it's own). LOL
Unless, of course your kickstand, while extended, has a kill-while-in-gear switch. Mine's gotta' be up to go.
 
#29 ·
True....

This all happened so lightning-fast...

Couple things I left out: The bus that almost hit the guy blocked me from making a u-turn, and honesty we were going to slow he could have easily ran up and hit me as close as he was if I decided to try it.

The reason I couldn't swerve to the right is my buddy was directly to my right, well, he was at my 4'o clock, we were close, b/c we just pulled out of the garage. We normally don't ride that close.

For a split-second I thought about whacking the throttle, however 1) we were approaching an intersection and the bus had blocked my view and 2) it was about 55 degrees and we had just got on the road. On a bike you have to pay attention to cold tires. A LOT of people wreck by giving too much gas on a cold tire (it will spin and dump you QUICK).

All-in-all I'm just glad I got home OK; but what scared/bothered me is I felt like I was the one that took it to the higher level and I think I felt guilty.
 
#35 ·
Coming back to the OP and experience--In the midst of the very fluid situation--you have one guy--(intentions unknown, but definetly "odd" behavior), force the OP to stop, and then the OP sees the guys "buds" converging on the scene---

--it didn't "feel" right to either the OP or his riding partner, and they both, independantly of each other, made defensive moves in preperation for potential violence--they are boxed in, vulnerable and presented with a potential of significant disparity of force. I'd say they made the right moves and should NOT feel bad about a defensive stance.
 
#36 ·
I think you did fine, in reflecting on this occurrence you will grow and adapt for the next time, (hopefully there won't be one). I certainly saw the situation you depicted the same way you and your riding partner did and would also have been on the defensive.
 
#37 ·
All things considered, since you couldn't escape, I think your best option would have been to kill the engine like you did, drop the kick stand, dismount the bike, and keep the bike between you and the drunk. You could draw your weapon (if you chose to), but the drunks buddies bearing down on you really complicates things. Hop on the back of your buddy's bike and motor off? It would really suck to leave your bike in the middle of the street but it IS an option. But if he freezes and you get caught on the bike you are even worse off.

No real good options here and like you said it went down really fast. It's easy to look back and debate all the should haves and could haves. That was a crappy scenario and I'm glad everything turned out OK.

This is also a good advertisement for carrying a non-deadly force option.

Jim
 
#39 ·
You did good. Never can tell when someone will produce a weapon from somewhere.
The guy probably doesn't realize just how close he came to being DRT.
 
#41 ·
My concern would be fumbling with a gun (though you didn't draw) while straddling your bike. You're reduced to one handed steering, you're stuck in place (since it's difficult to dismount when twisting to prepare to draw), and you've now got a big decision loop - who's doing what, who's a threat. Much better to stop the bike and prepare to accelerate away, and of course, anticipating.

What's puzzling is that the guy who ran out into the street would not have done that if there was a car involved - he had, in his drunken state, to discern there was a bike, decide to run out in the street, avoid traffic.

Not saying OP was untruthful, but it seems like something's missing from this account.
 
#47 ·
Yeah, I have no idea why he ran out. My best guess is he saw us pulling out of the garage, maybe he heard us and that got his attention?

And remember he did almost get smacked by a city bus (it was REALLY close) so I don't know what he was thinking....

now that I've had a few days to relax and replay it I'm sure it wasn't innocent. I think this clown was drinking with his buddies and was going to throw a sucker punch (or worse) at us to show how "bad" he is.
 
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