Crazy situation from a newbie!!

This is a discussion on Crazy situation from a newbie!! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok guys this is my first post at this site, I have been lurking and reading all the info I can for the past month. ...

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Thread: Crazy situation from a newbie!!

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    Member Array jace33's Avatar
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    Crazy situation from a newbie!!

    Ok guys this is my first post at this site, I have been lurking and reading all the info I can for the past month. I love the site and have learned so much from you guys! I have been thinking about what I, not new to guns but new to handguns, can contribute to this forum. This situation occured friday afternoon as my fiancee and I were leaving the shooting range...

    Man dies after apparent self-inflicted gunshot | Wichita Eagle

    This is how it went down from my pov... My SO and I entered the bullet stop @ appx 2:30 pm as I was looking for a new holster for my Glock 27 as my ccw is about to come in, and I wanted to be ready for it! I picked out a Galco kydex holster and began talking to the gentleman about my SO's problem of not being physically strong enough to rack the slide on my 27. He promptly showed her a much easier way to perform this and my SO and I were both happy with this and decided we wanted to go in the range and do a little shooting...

    The range setup is different than I've seen before with 2 different rooms with 8-10 lanes apiece, we were instructed to walk through the first room and take lane 14 which was near the back side of the 2nd room... As we walked in I did not notice anything unusual, just that the first room was full and was glad we were in the 2nd room that was nearly empty. As I got my weapon out and loaded mag's my SO couldn't stop looking @ the man that was shooting closest to us. I asked her what was wrong and she just said he was shaking SOOO bad, I told her not to worry he was probably just a new shooter. I went ahead and fired 2 full mag's through my weapon and was showing the SO how to properly load mag's when I started getting an awful feeling in my guts... This guy was shaking, horribly, couldn't hardly even hold his weapon, he was also breathing like he was in the beginning stages of an asthma attack and kept walking from the shooting line back to his bag, just acting really weird!!
    By this time I'm not sure if he is having a medical problem or just nervous about shooting but I decided that we could not afford to find out, we packed up the pistol and left, not thinking too much of it just glad to get out of an uncomfortable situation.

    I get home last night (dont live in Wichita) and look at the news and here is this story!! Wow, this definately confirmed my suspicions that the "spidey sense" is almost always right!! The article says it happened shortly after 3 and my receipt for checking out is timestamped @ 3:17... Is there any need for me to contact police or anything, I'm not 100% sure he was the man that shot himself, but i'd bet my next paycheck on it... I'm glad we got outta there when we did, if the SO saw something like that in a range I know she'd never go back!!

    Anyone else have any similar experiences @ shooting ranges?? Have any advice as to handle the situation better??

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  3. #2
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    Instincts are highly underrated. Good job on following yours!

    Public ranges freak me out. Half of the time, I end up leaving for reasons similar to yours (usually it's just an idiot doing what they do best).
    NYCrulesU likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Jace: Welcome to DC--although what a way to have to post your first thread. While there may be other opiions, if it were me, I would go ahead and contact LE and let them know that while you are not certain it was the same guy, that because of the other shooter's strange behavior, you wanted to report it anyway, just in case--being a good citizen. Your info, if it actually is the same guy, may help shed light on the investigation and may eventually help the victims family and/or friends come to grips with what happened........
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    The gift of FEAR! Good on you for listening to the hairs on your neck, your gut, your SOs Feminine intuition, all of that...

    Never forget this situation... If your body, senses, brain, feelings, whatever; tell you it's time to go, to turn around, to walk away... DO IT, DO IT NOW, DO NOT HESITATE.
    Bark'n likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Member Array jace33's Avatar
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    hey thanks for the quick replies everyone!! I do feel good about leaving when I did and not having to witness something like this.!! I think that public ranges that rent firearms are maybe a bad idea in general... At first I thought, oh wow, thats cool so you can try out a particular make/model before buying. After this I'm not so sure, it's giving a suicidal, or homicidal individual a free weapon of his choice... You don't even have to pay before renting the weapon and all you need is ID to go on the range... Maybe I'll stick to shooting on my buddies private land!
    I am so proud of the SO though, honestly she was the one that really noticed him as I was concentrating on helping her when she was shooting... The woman's intuition and my resolve to avoid danger surely helped us avoid an ugly, if not dangerous situation...

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    You may get some flak from other posters, and my post might initiate some of it, so I apologize. Some will tell you that you could have possibly saved a life by intervening in some fashion; talking to him, or talking to the range master. Maybe, maybe not.

    Whatever, don't feel guilty about leaving. He could just as well have been "fixin" to try to kill everyone in the place. As for not telling the range master, I am assuming he had closed circuit coverage of the place and should have been doing his own diligence.

    I'm also conflicted on reporting what you saw to the police. My general philosophy is don't talk to them about anything unless you have to. Since you are a bit uncertain that what you read about in the paper and what you saw are the same incident and person, I'd stay out of it.

    I'm sure the police know it was a suicide, and you have nothing material to add to that.

    Someone determined to do it who is also a gun owner will do it one place or another. It can't be stopped except by hospitalization and medicine. Had you attempted to intervene he could have become angry and turned on you as well. Same for the range master.

    It is a sad situation, but likely you did the right thing leaving. Now, MYOB. Maybe even make your post disappear so you don't get entangled in something---even being a witness to something you had no part of can cost lots of money and lots of aggravation.

    We'll both get flamed I suppose. You for what you didn't do, and I for saluting it.
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    Member Array jace33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    You may get some flak from other posters, and my post might initiate some of it, so I apologize. Some will tell you that you could have possibly saved a life by intervening in some fashion; talking to him, or talking to the range master. Maybe, maybe not.
    Honestly I could care less if someone has a problem with my leaving and not talking to the man... I refuse to put my fiancee in a bad situation like that, I am NOT a therapist or an LEO.. what if he became enraged by someone confronting him and I had to shoot him, you think the DA would just give me a free pass because I was trying to be helpful... what if i confronted him and he shot me dead on the spot, leaving my fiancee alone with a crazed gunman!? intervention was a lose-lose situation IMO...

    I feel horribly for the man and his family, and I feel their pain, my cousin from the same city shot herself in the head 2 months ago. It is a horrible way to go and is even worse for the loved one's that they leave behind...

    As for saying something to the range master, I assume that they have CCTV to monitor the range and I guess that is something I will be more careful about in the future. Also, there was an employee that was sweeping up brass in our "room" of the range as we were leaving... This is my only regret though, I could have said something to the cashier as I was paying but I just felt that impule to "GTFOH" and we did... we are both safe and sound today and my SO is still wanting to learn more about hanguns and guns in general...

    I appreciate your thoughts and opinions, I just respectfully disagree with anyone that thinks intervening with an unstable man with a loaded gun in hand is a good idea, EVER...
    Last edited by jace33; December 5th, 2011 at 01:12 PM. Reason: add info
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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Well, FWIW, when I'm at the range and see something careless or wrong, I'll tell the person...or the range master.

    If I see someone and I think their health is at risk, I'll inquire. I wouldnt leave a range full of people at risk if I thought the risk big enough to leave myself. Again, I'd at least speak to the range master. A person shaking so badly could easily hit someone else.


    And as for protecting your SO....you're not giving her much credit either. She's an adult handling weapons....good for her and she also needs to be aware of the realities of that responsibility.

    So yeah, I guess I'm in the minority of posters. I'm not criticizing your actions (well a bit re: your SO), but that is how I would likely have handled it.
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    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Yep, not your problem. You guys did good and should someone tell you that you should have regrets about leaving and not intervening then you tell them where to go. Also glad you weren't there when it happened.

    Also, welcome to the forum! Well, officially anyways
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    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Scary thing that's for sure. Sorry to hear about your cousin. I had a nephew that took his own life when he was 14. The shock to the family is extreme.

    Don't feel to bad about not intervening. As you pointed out, confronting an armed and unstable person is a no win. In hindsight I can see where as others have mentioned perhaps you could have made mention to the cashier, but still how would they have been able to handle this without putting someone from the gun shop in danger? If there was time they may have been able to call 911 and possible evacuate the area.

    You did well in listening to your gut and getting yourself and SO out to safety. That's the number one priority.

    As far as a followup call, I don't see where any harm could come from calling the police and explaining what you saw. You are not obligated to intervene in a situation, so I don't think there is anything to worry about. Would the information you provide help in the nvestigation? Possibly. Will it help the family cope? Doubtfull.

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Welcome to the DC Forum from Delaware! You made it out of the situation in one piece, that's your whole objective, you did ok.
    Hiram25
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    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Once again I have to ask. Why do "incidents" happen to the new guys?

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    Member Array jace33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Once again I have to ask. Why do "incidents" happen to the new guys?
    hmmm not too sure what is being implied, if anything, here!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Once again I have to ask. Why do "incidents" happen to the new guys?
    Maybe they become new guys here because of the incidents.

    And to jace33 - welcome aboard, no matter the circumstances.
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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    You may get some flak from other posters, and my post might initiate some of it, so I apologize. Some will tell you that you could have possibly saved a life by intervening in some fashion; talking to him, or talking to the range master. Maybe, maybe not.

    Whatever, don't feel guilty about leaving. He could just as well have been "fixin" to try to kill everyone in the place. As for not telling the range master, I am assuming he had closed circuit coverage of the place and should have been doing his own diligence.

    I'm also conflicted on reporting what you saw to the police. My general philosophy is don't talk to them about anything unless you have to. Since you are a bit uncertain that what you read about in the paper and what you saw are the same incident and person, I'd stay out of it.

    I'm sure the police know it was a suicide, and you have nothing material to add to that.

    Someone determined to do it who is also a gun owner will do it one place or another. It can't be stopped except by hospitalization and medicine. Had you attempted to intervene he could have become angry and turned on you as well. Same for the range master.

    It is a sad situation, but likely you did the right thing leaving. Now, MYOB. Maybe even make your post disappear so you don't get entangled in something---even being a witness to something you had no part of can cost lots of money and lots of aggravation.

    We'll both get flamed I suppose. You for what you didn't do, and I for saluting it.
    Wow, I actually agree with Hopyard for once! I, however, do believe I would have notified the range officer just as a safety precaution for others sake.
    Bubbiesdad and Bark'n like this.
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