Gun brandishing for self defense

[jdf3834]

Who is John R. Lott, Jr. and what do you think of his quotes like the following: "...about 15 national survey organizations in total that range from anything from 760,000 times a year to 3.6 million times a year people use guns defensively. About 98 percent of those simply involve people brandishing a gun and not using them."

And: "When victims are attacked, 98 percent of the time merely brandishing a gun is enough to cause the criminal to stop his attack."

Statements by John R. Lott, Jr. on Defensive Gun Brandishing : Deltoid

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[adric22]

He's probably right. I bet many of those cases are unreported to police.

[SIGguy229]

John Lott - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have you not heard of him before?

[DocPMD]

Who is John R. Lott, Jr. and what do you think of his quotes like the following: "...about 15 national survey organizations in total that range from anything from 760,000 times a year to 3.6 million times a year people use guns defensively. About 98 percent of those simply involve people brandishing a gun and not using them."

And: "When victims are attacked, 98 percent of the time merely brandishing a gun is enough to cause the criminal to stop his attack."

Statements by John R. Lott, Jr. on Defensive Gun Brandishing : Deltoid

If you draw your weapon and don't pull the trigger, by definition that would be brandishing. But you had better be prepared to pull the trigger if the need arises. Rule No. 2 of gun safety, don't cover anything with the muzzle unless you are prepared to destroy it. Brandishing only for the sake of scaring a BG off would violate that rule.

[Harryball]

If you draw your weapon and don't pull the trigger, by definition that would be brandishing. But you had better be prepared to pull the trigger if the need arises. Rule No. 2 of gun safety, don't cover anything with the muzzle unless you are prepared to destroy it. Brandishing only for the sake of scaring a BG off would violate that rule.

You must also remember that if you do draw down on someone and they turn tail and run, that you cannot shoot them in the back...

[DocPMD]

You must also remember that if you do draw down on someone and they turn tail and run, that you cannot shoot them in the back...

Of course. I guess all that I was trying to point out is that there is no bluffing in this game.

[jdf3834]

My thoughts are, a weapon not used is a weapon that can be taken away from you.

[OldVet]

78% of people make up 83% of their statistics 98% of the time.

If you draw your firearm to protect yourself, it's not brandishing--it's self-defense. No law requires your firearm to be fired to be used in defense.

[ksholder]

My thoughts are, a weapon not used is a weapon that can be taken away from you.

So, you pull you weapon on Johnny Perp and he does one of the following - see list below - and following your mantra, you gotta use the gun so you shoot him. Now who is in trouble?

1. he turns and runs
2. he throws his hands up and then prones out at your command

If you mean use as in shoot - every time you draw - you could have issues. You may stay drawn down on JP while he exits or til cops get there, but if you shoot him once the thread is over, well, I would not want to fight that battle.

[MadMac]

So, you pull you weapon on Johnny Perp and he does one of the following - see list below - and following your mantra, you gotta use the gun so you shoot him. Now who is in trouble?

1. he turns and runs
2. he throws his hands up and then prones out at your commandIf you mean use as in shoot - every time you draw - you could have issues. You may stay drawn down on JP while he exits or til cops get there, but if you shoot him once the thread is over, well, I would not want to fight that battle.

Perhaps you are a LEO. I'm not. I cannot legally detain someone "until the cops get there." I know some states have arcane citizen's arrest laws, but mine does not. I either luck out and he runs away (or in some way stops being a threat), or I have have to shoot. I'm not commanding anyone to do diddly-squat.

[GentlemanJim]

My thoughts are, a weapon not used is a weapon that can be taken away from you.

Then there is no question they are armed and they get shot with my backup.

Jim

[bdcheung]

I either luck out and he runs away (or in some way stops being a threat), or I have have to shoot. I'm not commanding anyone to do diddly-squat.

Where do you live?


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[MadMac]

Where do you live?

Mostly in NC. NC does not have any legal provision for a citizen's arrest.

From the Wiki: "Each state, with the exception of North Carolina, permits citizen arrests if the commission of a felony is witnessed by the arresting citizen, or when a citizen is asked to assist in the apprehension of a suspect by police. The application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanors, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party. For example, Arizona law allows a citizen's arrest if the arrestor has personally witnessed the offense occurring."

[farronwolf]

78% of people make up 83% of their statistics 98% of the time.

If you draw your firearm to protect yourself, it's not brandishing--it's self-defense. No law requires your firearm to be fired to be used in defense.

Agreed. Brandishing is a whole different animal than drawing your gun to stop a threat.

Texas even has a specific statue related to the topic of this thread.

PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force
is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes
of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by
the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose
is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly
force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

[ksholder]

Perhaps you are a LEO. I'm not. I cannot legally detain someone "until the cops get there." I know some states have arcane citizen's arrest laws, but mine does not. I either luck out and he runs away (or in some way stops being a threat), or I have have to shoot. I'm not commanding anyone to do diddly-squat.

Well, MadMac, feel free to shoot the guy after he has thrown his hands up. In my worldview, if the perp just throws his hands up and gives up, I can't shoot him. We can either stand there and look at each other or I put him in a position that disadvantages him so he can't attack me easily or quickly. Proning him out with his feet toward me and nose on the rug while I hold him at gun point, while not ideal, sure beats the heck out of us looking at each other while he is standing. I am not sure I would call this a citizen's arrest so much as continuing to defend myself as if I quit paying attention to the perp, I may well be back in an at risk situation.