Gun brandishing for self defense

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Thread: Gun brandishing for self defense

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    Member Array jdf3834's Avatar
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    Gun brandishing for self defense

    Who is John R. Lott, Jr. and what do you think of his quotes like the following: "...about 15 national survey organizations in total that range from anything from 760,000 times a year to 3.6 million times a year people use guns defensively. About 98 percent of those simply involve people brandishing a gun and not using them."

    And: "When victims are attacked, 98 percent of the time merely brandishing a gun is enough to cause the criminal to stop his attack."

    Statements by John R. Lott, Jr. on Defensive Gun Brandishing : Deltoid

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    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    He's probably right. I bet many of those cases are unreported to police.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

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    John Lott - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Have you not heard of him before?
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdf3834 View Post
    Who is John R. Lott, Jr. and what do you think of his quotes like the following: "...about 15 national survey organizations in total that range from anything from 760,000 times a year to 3.6 million times a year people use guns defensively. About 98 percent of those simply involve people brandishing a gun and not using them."

    And: "When victims are attacked, 98 percent of the time merely brandishing a gun is enough to cause the criminal to stop his attack."

    Statements by John R. Lott, Jr. on Defensive Gun Brandishing : Deltoid
    If you draw your weapon and don't pull the trigger, by definition that would be brandishing. But you had better be prepared to pull the trigger if the need arises. Rule No. 2 of gun safety, don't cover anything with the muzzle unless you are prepared to destroy it. Brandishing only for the sake of scaring a BG off would violate that rule.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocPMD View Post
    If you draw your weapon and don't pull the trigger, by definition that would be brandishing. But you had better be prepared to pull the trigger if the need arises. Rule No. 2 of gun safety, don't cover anything with the muzzle unless you are prepared to destroy it. Brandishing only for the sake of scaring a BG off would violate that rule.
    You must also remember that if you do draw down on someone and they turn tail and run, that you cannot shoot them in the back...
    The Old Anglo likes this.
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    Member Array DocPMD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    You must also remember that if you do draw down on someone and they turn tail and run, that you cannot shoot them in the back...
    Of course. I guess all that I was trying to point out is that there is no bluffing in this game.

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    Member Array jdf3834's Avatar
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    My thoughts are, a weapon not used is a weapon that can be taken away from you.

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    78% of people make up 83% of their statistics 98% of the time.

    If you draw your firearm to protect yourself, it's not brandishing--it's self-defense. No law requires your firearm to be fired to be used in defense.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdf3834 View Post
    My thoughts are, a weapon not used is a weapon that can be taken away from you.
    So, you pull you weapon on Johnny Perp and he does one of the following - see list below - and following your mantra, you gotta use the gun so you shoot him. Now who is in trouble?

    1. he turns and runs
    2. he throws his hands up and then prones out at your command

    If you mean use as in shoot - every time you draw - you could have issues. You may stay drawn down on JP while he exits or til cops get there, but if you shoot him once the thread is over, well, I would not want to fight that battle.
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    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    So, you pull you weapon on Johnny Perp and he does one of the following - see list below - and following your mantra, you gotta use the gun so you shoot him. Now who is in trouble?

    1. he turns and runs
    2. he throws his hands up and then prones out at your commandIf you mean use as in shoot - every time you draw - you could have issues. You may stay drawn down on JP while he exits or til cops get there, but if you shoot him once the thread is over, well, I would not want to fight that battle.
    Perhaps you are a LEO. I'm not. I cannot legally detain someone "until the cops get there." I know some states have arcane citizen's arrest laws, but mine does not. I either luck out and he runs away (or in some way stops being a threat), or I have have to shoot. I'm not commanding anyone to do diddly-squat.
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    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdf3834 View Post
    My thoughts are, a weapon not used is a weapon that can be taken away from you.
    Then there is no question they are armed and they get shot with my backup.

    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I either luck out and he runs away (or in some way stops being a threat), or I have have to shoot. I'm not commanding anyone to do diddly-squat.
    Where do you live?


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    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
    Where do you live?
    Mostly in NC. NC does not have any legal provision for a citizen's arrest.

    From the Wiki: "Each state, with the exception of North Carolina, permits citizen arrests if the commission of a felony is witnessed by the arresting citizen, or when a citizen is asked to assist in the apprehension of a suspect by police. The application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanors, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party. For example, Arizona law allows a citizen's arrest if the arrestor has personally witnessed the offense occurring."

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    78% of people make up 83% of their statistics 98% of the time.

    If you draw your firearm to protect yourself, it's not brandishing--it's self-defense. No law requires your firearm to be fired to be used in defense.
    Agreed. Brandishing is a whole different animal than drawing your gun to stop a threat.

    Texas even has a specific statue related to the topic of this thread.

    PC 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force
    is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes
    of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by
    the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose
    is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly
    force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Perhaps you are a LEO. I'm not. I cannot legally detain someone "until the cops get there." I know some states have arcane citizen's arrest laws, but mine does not. I either luck out and he runs away (or in some way stops being a threat), or I have have to shoot. I'm not commanding anyone to do diddly-squat.
    Well, MadMac, feel free to shoot the guy after he has thrown his hands up. In my worldview, if the perp just throws his hands up and gives up, I can't shoot him. We can either stand there and look at each other or I put him in a position that disadvantages him so he can't attack me easily or quickly. Proning him out with his feet toward me and nose on the rug while I hold him at gun point, while not ideal, sure beats the heck out of us looking at each other while he is standing. I am not sure I would call this a citizen's arrest so much as continuing to defend myself as if I quit paying attention to the perp, I may well be back in an at risk situation.
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    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

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