I shot an unarmed 16 year old--- kinda sorta

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Thread: I shot an unarmed 16 year old--- kinda sorta

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    There have been a number of Big Beefy LEO's and civilians that have felt they could handle just about anything with physical force,but they end up getting gang tackled and are either beaten half to death,or killed by blows,stabbing,or gunfire.
    Old School likes this.
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  3. #17
    AOK
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    IMHO, once the weapon was introduced by the second assailant during a scuffle I think it is reasonable to believe they both intended to cause great bodily harm or death. Hence, you would be safe to draw your weapon and defend yourself in Michigan.

  4. #18
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    IMO, in real life, the kid is going to be much more aggressive causing you to shoot anyway. You will know just how possible it will be to fight him off, by his size, while training your attention to the bigger threat. If overwhelmed, you will consider him a monster.

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Good shoot, two on one and a deadly weapon was previously employed.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    I'd love to hear MitchellCt on this one.
    Hopyard likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goett047 View Post
    You mean live to tell your lawyer about it.
    Nope- the police; "I am a CWP holder- here is my permit- I was attacked, their knife is over there, and I will sign ANY COMPLAINT against them you require after I have spoken with my lawyer."

    THEN you tell your lawyer about it. Because your lawyer- no matter how good he/she may be- will beat the police to the scene of a shooting. Unless you're your own lawyer.
    "Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"

    "Gun control means hitting your target every time."

    Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.

  8. #22
    New Member Array goett047's Avatar
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    I wouldn't even say that much

  9. #23
    Member Array Ishmael's Avatar
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    Just as an observation, I often hear people talking about the issue of losing control of their own weapon as playing into a shoot-don't shoot situation (i.e., having to shoot because you fear losing control of your weapon). For pros, I'm pretty sure that's not considered legit. Does anyone know if that is really something that ever plays into legal consideration of civilian DGUs?

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Regardless of age, isn't 2 against 1 a disparity of force?

    Even if the knife was eliminated from the equation, how far could they beat you down before they got control of your pistol?

    I think that you handled it well, fwiw
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Unless you are a very skilled fighter and even at that your chances are very good that you are going to be cut by the knife attacker in the initial assault.

    I agree with all the above who have stated a good shoot due to disparity of force and deadly weapon intoduced.

    Yes there will be an investigation and yes you should have a good attorney.

    Good scenario.

    OS
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

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  12. #26
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    Regardless of age, isn't 2 against 1 a disparity of force?
    Not automatically. Disparity is a factual determination. Age can enter into the determination, health, training, weight, height, there are too many variables to list. Two against one might generally be disparate, but if the one is a professional fighter or boxer, or even a highly ranked amateur, maybe not. It is the totality of the matter and the totality of facts that will go into the determinations.
    Hopyard and Bark'n like this.

  13. #27
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    R&G--- you raised exactly something that concerns me in the back of my mind. Really, for all the H2H training and practice I'm actually not very good. Yet, the fact of the training would go into a determination of disparity by all enabled to judge my action.

    I can easily imagine some thinking along the following lines: "He disarmed that fella and (exaggerated for discussion) broke
    his jaw, why'd he have to shoot the unarmed kid?" "Why didn't he just punch him?"
    "So he's almost 70? So what? He's a trained 'killer." "Rotten fella goes around with a gun and practices to kill
    folks with his bare hands." "Down with Hopyard." "Thirty years."
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  14. #28
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    It is the totality, therefore your age may be offset by the H2H training and skill level exhibited, but only to some extent. Although a 65 YO may have H2H training and be proficient therein, the 65 YO is still 65 YO. Weaker, slower, more frail, with slower reactions. Yes, it sucks, but a 65 YO is going to be given a "Kings X" many times merely due to age. An 80 YO old woman could shoot the Pope and probably be fine with disparity, to the contrary, a 30 YO will be sent to the Big House.

    Age works in our favor, and your skill level and true ability, will hopefully be the matter judged rather than the perceived ability.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    It is the totality, therefore your age may be offset by the H2H training and skill level exhibited, but only to some extent. Although a 65 YO may have H2H training and be proficient therein, the 65 YO is still 65 YO. Weaker, slower, more frail, with slower reactions. Yes, it sucks, but a 65 YO is going to be given a "Kings X" many times merely due to age. An 80 YO old woman could shoot the Pope and probably be fine with disparity, to the contrary, a 30 YO will be sent to the Big House.

    Age works in our favor, and your skill level and true ability, will hopefully be the matter judged rather than the perceived ability.
    This stuff ain't simple, that's for sure. In some ways its a roll of the dice.
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  16. #30
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    Here's how I see it.

    You are attacked by two people at the same time, at contact distance, and at least one of them is armed with a knife.

    Edged weapons are small, and often very difficult to see in the hands of an assailant, silent, and and can be deployed with lightning speed. Also, edged weapons are generally looked upon as a gruesome and deadly weapons which are very intimidating in and of itself.

    In my training dossier, (which is generally admissible in court) I have a pretty extensive file of particularly nasty and gruesome photos of wounds produced by edged weapons which would show the court I have prior knowledge as to the capabilities of edged weapons to produce lethal, or permanently crippling and emotionally lasting wounds.

    Even though one deadly knife assailant had been disarmed, the assault never ceased and hostilities continued with the second assailant joining into the mix and the one which moments ago had a knife, continuing the fight.

    In the heat of the immediate battle, in that context, given what you already know about edged weapons in general, you may assume other knives and or other deadly weapons are immediately available to the assailants and may be deployed at any second, and without you seeing it. You are truly in a desperate situation of the gravest extreme!

    You are all three in the midst of a H2H struggle and two assailants are all over you in one continuous and active assault. (No break in the action and no distance placed between the three of you which would allow you the opportunity to further examine and determine the presence of other weapons) you would be justified in shooting both your attackers.
    Moga, Hopyard and Rock and Glock like this.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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