Choked from behind

This is a discussion on Choked from behind within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hopyard . . . Fortunately, in everyday civilian life it is fairly uncommon to be attacked that way. The BG wants something. ...

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 78
Like Tree32Likes

Thread: Choked from behind

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,217
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    . . .

    Fortunately, in everyday civilian life it is fairly uncommon to be attacked that way. The BG wants something. He needs to face you to demand it. If his goal was to kill you from behind without you knowing what was going on he could just as well
    have shot you from the back or cut your throat or stabbed your chest--lots of options. It makes no sense to go hands on and risk the fight.

    . . . though I suppose some BGs might want to drag an unconscious victims into a car or alley.

    Lima's suggestion of a blade carried center front makes sense. I never thought of that, but then I don't carry a knife for other reasons.
    If they are (MitchellCT's version of) violent psycho/sociopaths then any attack from behind is likely to be deadly... If they have a weapon they'll use it on you and you are dead... and you will never see it coming. Good thing? It will probably be effective and hence, quick. Likelihood? pretty darned low...

    Most encounters are face to face. Most start at some distance with some time to think and work... even if limited time and space. Remember this: Once the clock starts ticking... it ticks for the BG too... And can be more constraining on him, than it is on you. (lesson learned from Just 2 Seconds by Gavin deBecker)
    Hopyard likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    Member Array Speculator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    223
    Just keep in mind, you -generally- have to have "space" to deploy your weapon, and you have to have time to bring the muzzle on target, and time to decision loop and shoot. The 'time' may be very, very brief, but without it, there's a problem.

    When you access your firearm or your knife, you are now going 'one-handed'. That means your focus is split between your 'tool' (gun or knife) and your empty hand. This may seem elementary, but remember in times of stress, decision, coordination and timing are all going to be off to the degree with which you have practiced those moves under stress with a resisting opponent.

    So:
    1. Get your moves functionalized against a resisting opponent (using a training gun and/or training knife);
    2. Learn how to coordinate your left and right hands;
    3. Learn which are the best methods of carry and deployment from various difficult positions (being mounted, back mount, while under submissions or chokes);
    4. Learn the technical methods for countering various choke holds. That includes not letting the attacker get fully 'set' into the hold;
    5. Learn how to improve your SA to aid #3.

    Remember, the way a hold is applied by a stronger or enraged attacker will probably be different than they are applied in class even with a partner trying to be realistic. You might also be in a low light situation and you might 'forget' where your tools are on your belt/person. These can all be practiced to some degree.

    Start slowly and work with your partner - these can be dangerous positions. Be careful working the scramble - it's often best to start from contact. (A lot of people discover the value of an ankle sheath or holster when on their backs on the ground, btw)

  4. #33
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,247
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Fortunately, in everyday civilian life it is fairly uncommon to be attacked that way. The BG wants something. He needs to face you to demand it. If his goal was to kill you from behind without you knowing what was going on he could just as well
    have shot you from the back or cut your throat or stabbed your chest--lots of options. It makes no sense to go hands on and risk the fight.
    Not to mention, getting the PERFECT choke hold on someone is pretty hard unless they are completely compliant.

    The volunteer in the video I posted was the perfect "victim." He just sat there, totally willing to get choked out. That is not going to be the case of your average individual who has someone put his arm around their neck. They are going to start fighting (or at least they'd better).

    Although, optimal or not, likely or not, an arm around the neck is a very serious situation that should be dealt with as quickly and violently as possible, because the person just might get lucky and have you unconscious in seconds.

    I was choked out once by my sister when I was in junior high. She wasn't even trying. All she did was put her hands around my neck, squeeze and shake me twice and I hit the floor like a sack of potatoes and was out for a couple of seconds.

    Any time someone gets his hands or arms around your neck should be a que to get especially violent and get them off because it is a very vulnerable position to be in.

    Personally, I think a knife is one of the best defenses against a choking hold or hand.

  5. #34
    AOK
    AOK is offline
    Member Array AOK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    As for Hitch's scenario. Shortly after I got my CHL many years ago, I had an "epiphany" of sorts. I recognized that the handgun is a limited weapon. That is what drove me to put so much effort into H2H. I don't think a gun will be of immediate usefulness in that situation, a knife maybe.
    You are correct, a handgun can be limited often in close quarter situations such as described. In this case a knife would likely be the best option if you can get to it quickly. For someone like me that carries a knife in the pocket my firearm is much easier and quicker to access. With that said, the firearm can most certainly be used as an effective tool if applied properly.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,217
    The volunteer in Lima's video was experiencing enough to "tap out" after 4... count 'em... F O U R seconds... And, during that 4 seconds, you are getting weaker... Stab and drag the knife? As opposed to what? Trying to shoot his elbow off (without hitting yourself in the face?) using the barrel of the gun as a kubotan? What are you going to do with the gun?
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  7. #36
    AOK
    AOK is offline
    Member Array AOK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    The volunteer in Lima's video was experiencing enough to "tap out" after 4... count 'em... F O U R seconds... And, during that 4 seconds, you are getting weaker... Stab and drag the knife? As opposed to what? Trying to shoot his elbow off (without hitting yourself in the face?) using the barrel of the gun as a kubotan? What are you going to do with the gun?
    The way I was taught your shots will actually be going into their abdomen, pelvic area or leg. This all depends on if you are picked up off of the ground, arm length, height of assailant and victim, ect. The gun is nowhere near your face.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,217
    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    The way I was taught your shots will actually be going into their abdomen, pelvic area or leg. This all depends on if you are picked up off of the ground, arm length, height of assailant and victim, ect. The gun is nowhere near your face.
    Maybe effectual. If your shot is good... and you can repeat... automatic or revolver?
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  9. #38
    AOK
    AOK is offline
    Member Array AOK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Maybe effectual. If your shot is good... and you can repeat... automatic or revolver?
    Obviously if you are using a semi you have to worry about your slide being pushed out of battery. If it's pushed out of battery you have to either get the muzzle off of the attacker or force it back in with you thumb (of course you would only get 1 shot off if you had to force it into battery). All would be extremely tough to do if you can't look down at your gun. Personally one of the reasons I like my TLR1 is because the light extends past the muzzle providing me a little forgiveness if you will on contact shots. Not an ideal situation by no means. You certainly don't have to worry about these things with a revolver.

    You are correct, there are A LOT of if's here just like many different scenarios. I would choose a knife over my gun in this situation. However, I don't think I could get to it quick enough since it is in my pocket. Is the gun effective? That will depend on the assailant, the victim and some luck. I will certainly take my chance with the gun over some hammer fists to the groin if I thought it was a matter of life or death.

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    749
    I don't think that going my handgun at this point would be a good idea. I think I would do something similar to this.

    Choke From Behind - YouTube
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  11. #40
    AOK
    AOK is offline
    Member Array AOK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by stevem174 View Post
    I don't think that going my handgun at this point would be a good idea. I think I would do something similar to this.

    Choke From Behind - YouTube
    This two handed choke is MUCH different that the video Limatunes showed. Even if the assailaint was stronger than you there are several option of getting out of any two handed choke. This would certainly not require the use of my firearm to save my life.
    Hopyard likes this.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,768
    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    This two handed choke is MUCH different that the video Limatunes showed. Even if the assailaint was stronger than you there are several option of getting out of any two handed choke. This would certainly not require the use of my firearm to save my life.
    Very different, especially since in the video the guy is getting his collar bones choked and not his actual neck.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
    www.ddchl.com
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Texas Hunter Education Instructor
    NRA Instructor

  13. #42
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,597
    Just a big bunch of +++++++++ for this important thread. Thanks Hitch and all.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    This two handed choke is MUCH different that the video Limatunes showed. Even if the assailaint was stronger than you there are several option of getting out of any two handed choke. This would certainly not require the use of my firearm to save my life.
    Absolutely, they are totally different. To quote Darren Levine from his book "Complete KRAV MAGA" ...." If we teach you 300 defenses for 300 attacks. you'll put this book down, go outside, and be assaulted by attack # 301"

    Limatunes video shows the effects of a properly applied choke hold. I am sure that almost everyone here would have already been fighting before the arm got around our necks. I agree there are many techniques that can be used. IMO all the good ones have one thing in common. Fight like your life depends on it.
    AOK and WHEC724 like this.
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  15. #44
    Senior Member Array RemMod597's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    behind you...
    Posts
    713
    Quote Originally Posted by seapuppy View Post
    knives and attempting to cut someone in this position isn't going to be fast enough in a sleeper hold....best and quickest defence is to grab the jewels as hard as possible...make them see stars........or drive your fist into them....again...stars are the objective...once they release you....either run or kick again as hard as possible into the jewels and then run.......


    Steve

    Or drive your knife repeatedly into their groin. Nice arteries around there.


    The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array Spade115's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    603
    I agree with glockrocker, you get that close to me in a harmful manner and your dumb enough not to go for one of my knives your going to get one blade first.

    Not too found of grabbing some guys job but if he's wearn a cup he'll meet the tip of a sharp blade and see how lang that cup last's
    When life gives you lemons, Open a lemonaid buisness.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

choked and carry
,
choked from behind
,
choked from behind and lifted off your feet
,

choked hard

,
choked out video
,
guy gets choked out for pulling a gun
,
i like to be choked
,
isotope 7 holster
,
texas chl shoots attacker trying to gouge his eyes out
,
what to do if choked from behind
,
whats choked out from behind
Click on a term to search for related topics.