Had to Draw on Someone Last Night - Page 12

Had to Draw on Someone Last Night

This is a discussion on Had to Draw on Someone Last Night within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 9MMare You might be right tho. Instead of proactively reversing, she should have just sat there until he actually was yanking on ...

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Thread: Had to Draw on Someone Last Night

  1. #166
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    You might be right tho. Instead of proactively reversing, she should have just sat there until he actually was yanking on the door handle. Or pulling out a weapon.

    Funny, I thought situational awareness was ALL about being proactive.
    Your sarcasm isn't really targeted well. Reversing and leaving the area with gun at-the-ready = PROACTIVE and eminently sensible. No one has yet said any different. I am not sure why you keep pointing that out.

    Shouting curses and pointing the weapon at the man (introducing lethal force) = unnecessary and possibly an illegal action that could get her in lots of trouble. I am sure SHE thought the man was threatened by her weapon (not sure why she refers to it by caliber), and that was why she was having a jolly time joking about scaring the poop out of him. I doubt she would have said that unless she knew she had clearly presented the business end of her sidearm to the bicyclist.

    You should be proactive in this situation, and rolling up windows, reversing to get away, and getting your sidearm ready to deploy are all sound tactics. However, the law doesn't allow you to be proactive in introducing lethal force when such is not yet called for.


  2. #167
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Readers's Digest version: I will draw and aim at an attacker if I believe lethal force is imminent. I will shoot if they continue the attack. I will lower weapon and not shoot if that threat ends.

    I will have to prove to police and possibly a jury that I perceived the lethal threat.

    I also understand the distinction between having weapon 'ready' and not aimed and aimed. From OP's post, I'm not sure which it was, but the man approaching apparently saw it.
    I apologize if I gave the impression that you have a misunderstanding about appropriate actions to take, that wasn't my intent at all. I got the impression that I wasn't clear with my words in what I was saying about a person drawing their weapon. I only wanted to make sure that we were both on the same page. I didn't mean to imply that you have to shoot someone if you take your gun out of the holster but I do think that if things get to the point to where you feel you need to point a gun at someone then you are at the point to where you need to shoot. The point I was trying to make is that if the OP was using the gun as a scare tactic then this was the wrong thing to do and can go against her in court. You pointed out that nothing in the account said she actually pointed the gun at anyone. I agree but from the way it is told, it sure is implied with all of the rejoicing about the BG soiling himself, etc. Maybe the BG saw her taking the gun out of the holster and putting it in her lap and got scared of the sight of that whole undertaking. Some of these points are open to interpretation since the OP has dropped out of all of this to leave us to sort things out accordingly, which I find a little odd.

  3. #168
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    9MM, as you pointed out, there is a difference between how a woman and a man react to a given situation. You are destroying all the years of woman's lib by stating that one. So, should there be remedial training for females because they are some how different? But she passed the US Military requirements for fitness, and declared combat ready, and is a (trained?) MP.

    So now I am supposed to make allowances for her actions because she is a female? What a double standard.
    Sorry, I don't make allowances for this. You either can handle or you cant.

    I'm sure somemore sensitive type Knights will charge in here to defend her actions.
    But like I said, and, you just admitted, nothing but drama.
    You're absolutely right Glock 10.

    Women are not specifically targeted because they 'look weaker'. They are not targeted for rape.

    And in fact, are usually just as strong as men.

    M'ok. Sorry, but I dont think a few decades of "women's lib" has changed enough to make this^^^^ true.

    Yes, it would be nice if we could all afford the time and $$ to take more self-defense training. And feel more confident when approached by strange males when we are alone.

    As for the OP, you distinctly stated this earlier. Is she qualified or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    If a real off duty LE would have reacted that way, this thread would be full of haters Condemning the action.
    I've stated why I think she could have been justified aiming her weapon at him (see my posts about being proactive and that he could still have been armed. If the military are supposed to act differently, so be it. I guess I cant speak to that.)

    I see both sides here and dont really have a problem with people disagreeing. It's so much of people dismissing her (very possibly) valid reading of his potential as a real threat that I find dismaying.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  4. #169
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    Some of these points are open to interpretation since the OP has dropped out of all of this to leave us to sort things out accordingly, which I find a little odd.
    I don't find it odd at all. I think we haven't heard from the OP because:

    1) it was a fabricated incident, and she (assumed by female avatar) simply wanted some attention, and/or
    2) her military supervisor has gotten wind of this, and she's in a heap of doo-doo at her active or reserve unit.

    That said, we certainly cranked up the number of views for this thread. How about a freebie from the mods?

  5. #170
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I've stated why I think she could have been justified aiming her weapon at him (see my posts about being proactive and that he could still have been armed. If the military are supposed to act differently, so be it. I guess I cant speak to that.)
    Please show me the law citation where concealed carriers are allowed to present the business end of their ccw to someone because they "could still have been armed" to use your terms. Also, where does the law say we can introduce lethal force as a proactive measure?

    Pro Tip: Save yourself the research time. You can't.

    I thought you had been around here a while. Not sure where you think the OP's skewed and possibly wildly-inaccurate assessment justifies using her firearm to scare the poop out of a guy on a bicycle. That was her post-action assessment.

    ...anyway, it's been fun here...but now it's just boring and repetitive.
    Secret Spuk likes this.

  6. #171
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Please show me the law citation where concealed carriers are allowed to present the business end of their ccw to someone because they "could still have been armed" to use your terms. Also, where does the law say we can introduce lethal force as a proactive measure?

    Pro Tip: Save yourself the research time. You can't.

    I thought you had been around here a while. Not sure where you think the OP's skewed and possibly wildly-inaccurate assessment justifies using her firearm to scare the poop out of a guy on a bicycle. That was her post-action assessment.
    All she has to do is convince them that she believe she was in fear for her life. The whole 'aggressively yelling and aproaching" does it for me. Doesnt take a gun for that. Not for brandishing, not in my state.

    Again...it would be his word against hers and since no shots were fired, DISMISSED! Or maybe a fine.


    Shooting is a different story.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  7. #172
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    I think this thread has stopped being constructive. I've posted my opinions, obviously, and am pretty sure I've provided reasonable support for my opinions. Not expecting people to agree.

    I'm backing out for awhile....it's not fair to get the thread locked just to keep beating the same dead car salesman (what? I like horses).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  8. #173
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    What charges other than brandishing (do you think ) she would be brought up on?
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
    If you think that I may be talking to you, then I am.

  9. #174
    Member Array Speculator's Avatar
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    The reason people post 'Real Life self-defense' threads or incidents is to LEARN from them using the collective thoughts of people here who may have some experience. One must exercise great caution here because the authorities may read these posts. So if you give an account which shows you violated the law, claimed to brandish causing terror, you risk a lot. Most people who have these incidents for REAL do not post about them. They also show signs of being stressed out.

    If your post is a fabrication, a partial fabrication, or embellished, you subvert the whole reason the forum is here. One should NEVER post to exhibit bravado and here's where the OP made a mistake. Her post is clearly one of bravado, as evidenced in her joking with her partner about the guy soiling his trousers.

    So, it's no wonder people may doubt the story. When bravado is your motive, or bragging is your reason for posting, it's all too easy to try and make yourself look better than you were. IMO, the OP had a fantasy, and decided to play it out here in the guise of a story to see what people would do. This is also called 'trolling'. It doesn't help because a fantasy doesn't give us anything helpful.

  10. #175
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Gotta give 9mmare props for arguing your point. I feel like the OP kinda left you hanging though.
    DefConGun likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  11. #176
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    After having read almost 12 full pages of responses to the OP...I must quietly present the following opinion:

    No one can tell you what the threat will look like, and the best way to handle it. Be fluid, be flexible, use whatever means that are available to you to prevail. Normally a person's first instinct is correct, therefore DO SOMETHING!

    The OP did what she thought was correct at the time. Are there actions after the fact that could have been left off, sure there are. Are there actions after the fact that should have been done, sure there are. One of Jeff Cooper's principles of personal defense is DECISIVENESS - Pick a course of action and DO IT. The OP did it. JMO
    Sticks and oakchas like this.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  12. #177
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Gotta give 9mmare props for arguing your point. I feel like the OP kinda left you hanging though.
    Yeah well, maybe it's an "MP" thing.

    I guess I cant really put myself in an MP's place, woman or not. It was her call.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  13. #178
    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    I am seriously failing to see how anyone can find fault with the OP assuming this is the way it went down:

    Was running errands after work last night in town, pulled up to a stop sign at an intersection and was waiting for traffic to lighten up to pull out. I had my window down, radio up and spotted a black male around 250lbs dressed in black riding a bike, he drifted down the road and turned next to me, coming directly at me and yelled "hey! Hey you!", I hit the lock on the doors, got the window up to a safe height, threw it in reverse and grabbed my .40. He advanced aggressively headed for the door handle, I kept reversing, drew my weapon and told him to get away from my car. He saw the gun, and froze. I put my foot on the gas, backed up and made a u turn at a safe distance away and left

    should she have invited the guy in before she drew on a large man trying to grab her door handle? Remember that the OP stated that she is 5'3" and 120lbs. I doubt a loud voice and nasty stare was going to deter this guy if he had ill intent. This was a carjacking that never happened because the OP presented a weapon. Good for her. End of story. Talk lawyers and other jibberish all you want, but she survived and the guy hauled butt out of there. Brandishing??? Hardly.....totally justified IMO. IF YOU WANT ME TO PUT A GUN IN YOUR FACE, JUST REACH FOR MY VEHICLE DOOR HANDLE WITHOUT AN INVITATION FROM ME. I would say that anyone that without invitation reaches for the handle of a car vehicle with the owner already inside is going to get just what they need to get...... The wrong end of the view of a gun. I can totally justify to ANY lawyer that I was in fear for my life and was sure the BG was trying to steal my vehicle, and so I presented my firearm to protect myself. Whether he displayed a weapon or not means nothing. Maybe there are no car jackings in some parts of the United States, so some have no clue how it works. We have our share in Orlando. It will not be me. Glad the OP had a "pair" and refused for it to be her.
    AZJD1968, NYCrulesU and Sticks like this.
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  14. #179
    Member Array Billspider's Avatar
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    [Harry Callahan has to explain why he shot a man]
    Harry Callahan: Well, when an adult male is chasing a female with intent to commit rape, I shoot the *******. That's my policy.
    The Mayor: Intent? How did you establish that?
    Harry Callahan: When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher's knife and a hard-on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross!
    [walks out of the room]
    The Mayor: He's got a point.
    Share this quote

    I know, I know, I just couldn't help myself!

  15. #180
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonker1986 View Post
    I am seriously failing to see how anyone can find fault with the OP assuming this is the way it went down:

    Was running errands after work last night in town, pulled up to a stop sign at an intersection and was waiting for traffic to lighten up to pull out. I had my window down, radio up and spotted a black male around 250lbs dressed in black riding a bike, he drifted down the road and turned next to me, coming directly at me and yelled "hey! Hey you!", I hit the lock on the doors, got the window up to a safe height, threw it in reverse and grabbed my .40. He advanced aggressively headed for the door handle, I kept reversing, drew my weapon and told him to get away from my car. He saw the gun, and froze. I put my foot on the gas, backed up and made a u turn at a safe distance away and left

    should she have invited the guy in before she drew on a large man trying to grab her door handle? Remember that the OP stated that she is 5'3" and 120lbs. I doubt a loud voice and nasty stare was going to deter this guy if he had ill intent. This was a carjacking that never happened because the OP presented a weapon. Good for her. End of story. Talk lawyers and other jibberish all you want, but she survived and the guy hauled butt out of there. Brandishing??? Hardly.....totally justified IMO. IF YOU WANT ME TO PUT A GUN IN YOUR FACE, JUST REACH FOR MY VEHICLE DOOR HANDLE WITHOUT AN INVITATION FROM ME. I would say that anyone that without invitation reaches for the handle of a car vehicle with the owner already inside is going to get just what they need to get...... The wrong end of the view of a gun. I can totally justify to ANY lawyer that I was in fear for my life and was sure the BG was trying to steal my vehicle, and so I presented my firearm to protect myself. Whether he displayed a weapon or not means nothing. Maybe there are no car jackings in some parts of the United States, so some have no clue how it works. We have our share in Orlando. It will not be me. Glad the OP had a "pair" and refused for it to be her.
    I agree, especially if he advanced in a way that made her fear for her life. she did what she had to do to not be raped or killed. Not being raped or killed VS brandishing charges. It's a no brainer to me, and I hope that she knows the consequences of her actions. If she is a MP, then I'm sure she does.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
    If you think that I may be talking to you, then I am.

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