Had to Draw on Someone Last Night - Page 6

Had to Draw on Someone Last Night

This is a discussion on Had to Draw on Someone Last Night within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by TomEgun ‘Castle Doctrine’ revised(NC) Effective 1Dec2011 North Carolina’s new “Castle Doctrine” law, which addresses certain circumstances under which a person can legally ...

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Thread: Had to Draw on Someone Last Night

  1. #76
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomEgun View Post
    ‘Castle Doctrine’ revised(NC)
    Effective 1Dec2011
    North Carolina’s new “Castle Doctrine” law, which addresses certain circumstances under which a person can legally shoot or use other deadly force against another, takes effect Thursday.

    North Carolina’s current Castle Doctrine only applies to homes, but under the new law it also applies to vehicles and places of work. The Castle Doctrine, rooted in English common law, expresses the belief that one should be safe from illegal intrusion in one’s home.

    The new law is much longer and clarifies when deadly force can be used.

    New law more specific

    The new law defines a person’s home as any property with a roof where the person lives and also includes “curtilage,” which is the area immediately around a home. It defines a person’s workplace as any property with a roof used for commercial purposes. It says a home or workplace can be temporary or permanent and specifically says either one can be a tent.

    Under the new law, the lawful occupant of a home, motor vehicle or workplace isn’t required to retreat prior to using deadly force.

    The new law presumes that a person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter one of these locations intends to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

    The new law presumes that a lawful occupant of a home, motor vehicle or workplace reasonably fears imminent death or serious bodily harm to himself, herself or another when using defensive force likely to cause death or serious injury if:

    • the person against whom defensive force was used was unlawfully and forcefully entering or had already entered a motor vehicle, or workplace, or if the person had taken or was trying to take another person against his will from the home, motor vehicle or workplace;

    Good job But agreed Notify the Police.
    Sorry, conditions in bold NOT met... reaching for a door handle does not constitute forcible anything....

    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider View Post
    I'm bigger than the guy that the OP had problems with and even I would have pulled out my weapon if that same thing happen to me. So are you saying that one should wait until the guy pulls out a gun or a knife to make your move? Someone acting the way that guy was acting was clearly looking to rob her or even worst......
    Nope, I'm saying you're in reverse, you see the way is clear to exit... OP's CAR was bigger than you and her BG put together. You are in a 1-2 ton projectile... he is on a bike... he's astride it with feet planted on the ground... he's a speed bump if he tries anything REAL... CQB with an automobile.... not something I would want to try...

    Now, if you must. As soon as he reaches into his pants with the other hand ('cause one is reaching for but not in contact with your door handle.... okay point your gun at him.... but my point is this... I would not have seen him reach into his drawers... I'd have been a block away... The way was clear, OP was ALREADY backing up...

    Next time you're in your car, back your car out of your drive and onto the street, while taking your weapon off the seat next to you... and pointing at, say COM of your front door... Go Joey Chitwood, go!

    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider View Post
    The only problem I see is her not calling the police. When I someone had to meet the end of my 9mm, I not only called the police that night but went down to see the chief himself the next day.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose


  2. #77
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Put it this way, If it was my wife. I would be commending her on a job well done. We can MM Qb this all day long, we can nit pick the OP till we are blue in the face, Did she do some things wrong? Yes. But she is here to tell about it, and to be honest, she really didnt do anything wrong except for not calling the PD. Ill give her this one.

    I would rather her deal with the Justice system, then be lying in a pole of her own blood, raped and dead in the road. Is that real enough for everyone.
    AZJD1968 and zonker1986 like this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  3. #78
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Next time you're in your car, back your car out of your drive and onto the street, while taking your weapon off the seat next to you... and pointing at, say COM of your front door... Go Joey Chitwood, go!
    The OPer never said that she pointed the gun at the BG, she said that she drew it and he saw it and froze. Problem solved.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
    If you think that I may be talking to you, then I am.

  4. #79
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    The OPer never said that she pointed the gun at the BG, she said that she drew it and he saw it and froze. Problem solved.
    Here's where the story gets a little interesting... the gun was on the passenger seat according to a later post by the OP... In the original post she said she grabbed her gun... and then drew it... So, if it was in the holster on the passenger seat, then she had to get 2 "hands on" to draw it from the holster...

    Would you rather try THAT maneuver while backing out of your driveway?

    oh, and another quote from the OP... <<<added in edit>>>.

    He peddled up quickly, I started reversing, he put his feet down on the ground, kept walking with it between his legs, and reached towards the door.
    My car will reverse quicker than any man on foot especially with a bike between his legs and his feet on the ground.

    See, my perspective on this is what she's saying to us (a "jury of her peers..."). looking at "reasonable man" standards as posted elsewhere....

    And, again, I've got little problem with what she did... I'm all for brandishing to stop crime from happening.... but in some jurisdictions, that constitutes a threat... and in one such, until recently changed by the legislature, it was against the law.... (as was also posted elsewhere on DC).

    It's real easy to look at this from the perspective of hindsight... and from afar, and pick it apart... I was NOT there. But, if for some weird reason something like this were to go to trial... the jurors would not have been there either... and a prosecutor could easily make this look like unneccesary brandishing/threatening.

    It's something to consider every time you draw, brandish, point, shoot, whatever... in the final analysis... I am willing to ACT (as she did) and sort it out later, if I feel I am in danger of losing my life or suffering grave bodily injury.
    MadMac likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #80
    Senior Member Array RKflorida's Avatar
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    Reaching for her purse would be considered by all to be attempted robbery. Reaching for the car door handle would be considered by all sane people as attempting to enter the car. It's her car, she is a woman alone, he is reaching for the only way to enter the vehicle. He wasn't reaching for the antenna, or mirror, he was reaching for the only access to the interior of the car. He is damn lucky he wasn't shot. I don't care if he has a gun, could have a gun, is a church member, or a part time Santa, he is in deep doo. Good call OP. I've been thinking I would have let him go just a little further and then shot the SOB but that is foolish and I am contrite. Also, I don't call a cop every time I show someone my weapon. If it is a friend over to the house or a bad guy looking to get killed, neither one is calling the police to complain about me being mean and scaring them.

  6. #81
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Here's where the story gets a little interesting... the gun was on the passenger seat according to a later post by the OP... In the original post she said she grabbed her gun... and then drew it... So, if it was in the holster on the passenger seat, then she had to get 2 "hands on" to draw it from the holster...

    Would you rather try THAT maneuver while backing out of your driveway?
    Yes, and I have done more complex maneuvers.

    I can steer with my legs. I can hold the holster between my legs and draw one handed while still keeping a hand on the wheel. I can remove my weapon from my holster in .2 seconds or less with both hands. I can wedge the edge of the holster against the console or arm rest to hold the holster while I draw one handed. I can keep going with this, but I hope everyone gets the idea here. I don't see a problem/handicap here with it being drawn and negotiating a vehicle at the same time. It was not until after the suspect froze did she then accelerate. It's not like she was doing even 3 mph (walking speed) in reverse prior to this. I don't know about the rest of you, but it's pretty easy to control the rate of speed in any of the vehicles that I drive with use of the brake and or clutch (feet are not needed to draw a firearm).

    Use the vehicle as a weapon to run the guy over. That is an idea, but will make for some interesting days in court. Vehicular homicide (or any number of other charges). It is not something that I would ever do unless I was absolutely out of options, and I don't think that I have ever recommended it. It's your word against the bloody skid mark and human looking pile of meat as to weather it was a threat.

    Someone please post some news links where a victim was able to use their vehicle as a weapon to stop a threat (as in the vehicle was used to run the BG over, pin against another immovable object), and was cleared of any charges. Seen it on TV and in the movies a couple hundred times, but never heard of it in reality.

    Using the vehicle to get away from the situation, better idea, and that is what she did, in conjunction with her firearm. Using it as a weapon, talk about your last option to ever use.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  7. #82
    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post

    What really shines here is that you responded immediately. Where other people become victims is often a result of a delay in threat recognition. We know this because of their own testimony following street attacks. Over and over you'll read things like, "it looked funny but I wasn't sure," and "I couldn't believe this was actually happening," etc.

    By the time such victims are genuinely certain that they are in trouble, it's too late. This is the gift of regular, focused training: you shorten your reaction time, make better decisions, and don't choke in the clutch.
    These were the two things I said to myself when the 12 year old whipped out a pistol outside the 7-11 at 2 in the afternoon and liberated my wallet, watch, and phone. My disbelief at his age and boldness overcame my doubt as to whether he was wielding an actual gun (it was, as it turns out. I got to finger him in a line-up six months later), and I gave him the stuff and watched him shimmy over the back privacy fence and disappear. (That was my carry decision moment). My wife is a psychologist and says I suffer from PTSS. I prefer to think I like a harbor a grudge. Next a/0 loses.

  8. #83
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Sorry, conditions in bold NOT met... reaching for a door handle does not constitute forcible anything....



    !
    While I agree that using the vehicle to get out of Dodge is the best strategy....what you quoted is about USING deadly force. She didnt USE deadly force...she had it ready and prepared to do so should the criteria in that post be fulfilled.

    As it was, her displaying the firearm prevented any further agression and she is safe.


    Again, I'm not waiting until they have the upper hand. I will be as prepared as possible, trying to be proactive rather than reactive.
    Sticks likes this.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  9. #84
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Put it this way, If it was my wife. I would be commending her on a job well done. We can MM Qb this all day long, we can nit pick the OP till we are blue in the face, Did she do some things wrong? Yes. But she is here to tell about it, and to be honest, she really didnt do anything wrong except for not calling the PD. Ill give her this one.

    I would rather her deal with the Justice system, then be lying in a pole of her own blood, raped and dead in the road. Is that real enough for everyone.
    Harry, at the end of the day it was her situation to 'read.' We can all offer opinions, but since I dont think she's a troll, I'll take her word that she felt that threat.

    IMO, the only thing she should have done differently was call 911.

    Just my 2 cents. As you said, deal with the justice system and depend on 'the reasonable man.'...she and your wife....home safe.
    Harryball likes this.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  10. #85
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    It's something to consider every time you draw, brandish, point, shoot, whatever... in the final analysis... I am willing to ACT (as she did) and sort it out later, if I feel I am in danger of losing my life or suffering grave bodily injury.
    Agreed.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #86
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Yes, and I have done more complex maneuvers.

    I can steer with my legs. I can hold the holster between my legs and draw one handed while still keeping a hand on the wheel. I can remove my weapon from my holster in .2 seconds or less with both hands. I can wedge the edge of the holster against the console or arm rest to hold the holster while I draw one handed. I can keep going with this, but I hope everyone gets the idea here. I don't see a problem/handicap here with it being drawn and negotiating a vehicle at the same time. It was not until after the suspect froze did she then accelerate. It's not like she was doing even 3 mph (walking speed) in reverse prior to this. I don't know about the rest of you, but it's pretty easy to control the rate of speed in any of the vehicles that I drive with use of the brake and or clutch (feet are not needed to draw a firearm).

    Use the vehicle as a weapon to run the guy over. That is an idea, but will make for some interesting days in court. Vehicular homicide (or any number of other charges). It is not something that I would ever do unless I was absolutely out of options, and I don't think that I have ever recommended it. It's your word against the bloody skid mark and human looking pile of meat as to weather it was a threat.

    Someone please post some news links where a victim was able to use their vehicle as a weapon to stop a threat (as in the vehicle was used to run the BG over, pin against another immovable object), and was cleared of any charges. Seen it on TV and in the movies a couple hundred times, but never heard of it in reality.

    Using the vehicle to get away from the situation, better idea, and that is what she did, in conjunction with her firearm. Using it as a weapon, talk about your last option to ever use.
    Okay, I'll give you that you can drive with your legs and unholster and not (or maybe even) effectively aim a weapon... which, she apparently did not do (the aiming part). I mean, people text and drive alla time, no?

    Any time you care to meet on a clear street straddling a bicycle (I assume a full sized man's bike) with your feet on the ground, and reach for my car door handle... (ahem, agressively) while I am already in reverse, and all I gotta do is back up... let's see you get into my car... I'll even leave it unlocked... You can even have a simunitions weapon in your baggy pants and shoot at me as I drive off... You might even hit the vehicle... a Sierra 4 door. But I sincerely doubt you'll get into the truck... or that you'll score a deadly shot. And we don't even think this guy had a weapon....

    In the mean time, I'll go take classes on: Beginning driving and drawing, Shooting badguys from a moving vehicle 101, and all the other requisite training...

    I'm being a bit sarcastic here... .but c'mon... she really didn't NEED to DRAW. And, I said I don't even have a problem that she did... but a jury might... somewhere.
    MadMac likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  12. #87
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    We weren't there.

    She said in one brief paragraph what would take pages to accurately describe her 5 seconds from everything is normal to out of the situation.

    Did she look in her mirror to see if anyone was behind her? For that matter, when/if did she take her eyes of the BG (I don't know that I would)?
    How much traffic was on the cross street in front of her that she was waiting to turn onto?
    Time of day?
    Ambient light?
    How many lanes on the road was she on?
    Median?

    The detail questions can go on for days. I will take it for granted that she followed the options that she had available.
    9MMare likes this.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  13. #88
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I personally would not have drawn. I may have tried to unsheathe my gun, while quickly checking my egress options, but I would not have felt applying deadly force at that time.

    When you point a gun at someone, regardless of whether you pull the trigger or not, it is considered deadly force.
    I have been in enough criminal trials to know that this has the potential to get you in hot water.

    Picked up by a jury, you would have to convince them that you felt threatened by a man his bike who got to close to your car. You would have to convince them you had a reason to threaten you behind the locked door of your car. With no witnesses around it would be obvious you could have went forward or backed up by your own admission.
    Yes, I believe an ambitious prosecutor would be all over this one.

    Particular disturbing to me is the attitude of making jokes about it with a friend after the fact like it's some sort of joke. Reeks of immaturity to me.
    oakchas likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  14. #89
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    When you point a gun at someone, regardless of whether you pull the trigger or not, it is considered deadly force.
    I have been in enough criminal trials to know that this has the potential to get you in hot water.

    Picked up by a jury, you would have to convince them that you felt threatened by a man his bike who got to close to your car. You would have to convince them you had a reason to threaten you behind the locked door of your car. With no witnesses around it would be obvious you could have went forward or backed up by your own admission.
    Yes, I believe an ambitious prosecutor would be all over this one.

    Based "on her description of events" I find it hard to believe it would get past a grand jury to a criminal trial. What a waste of taxpayer $$$. No one harmed, no shots fired. A brandishing charge for a small female, alone in a car. Yes, she could retreat, and was. But according to her, it was the appearance of the gun that made the threat STOP.

    I think a grand jury would give the benefit of the doubt to her....but that's just IMO.

    (Truly, I would be disgusted if something like this went to trial and cost taxpayers $$ as well as the victim.)
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #90
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    The Judicial system is not based on common sense or what we think. It is based on weighing actions as measured against law of the land.

    For instance, in some cities there is a law against drinking in public. One would think that it's ok to drink a beer on your own fron porch, your property. But technically, you could be charged with an open container.

    My opinion was more based on the thought that if she had of pulled the trigger, would she be justified. I think not with the elements we know of from the post. Under these circumstances, I'm not sure if pulling a gun was really needed.
    oakchas and MadMac like this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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