Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs? - Page 2

Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs?

This is a discussion on Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SIXTO 1) get out of his cross hairs 2) get him in yours LOL. SIXTO sums up many years of training, experience ...

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Thread: Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs?

  1. #16
    VIP Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    1) get out of his cross hairs
    2) get him in yours
    LOL. SIXTO sums up many years of training, experience and mountains of reading material into two short sentences.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion


  2. #17
    AOK
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    It's not easy to explain exactly what you would do. We all think we know but when the chips are down anything can happen.

    I know what I have been trained through defensive firearm classes and Krav so I do have what I believe is a good game plan. I know if someone is holding their gun out away from their body and close to me (demonstrating they have no clue what they are doing) how I can get the gun from them regardless of how strong they are and do it in a FAIRLY safe fasion for other victims or witnesses. I know if they have their gun in retention or away from me where I can't immediately reach my best option MAY be to comply. I also know I can draw and fire from retention under .84 seconds even with a slight fumble no problem but it still isn't faster than a gun that is already drawn. Even if I get off of the X in the process and get shots into the assailant I will likely be eating some led. While I except the fact that I may get shot my ultimate goal is to avoid any extra holes. With that said, much it comes back to situational awareness, getting good training, and practicing over and over again the ttp's you were taught IMHO.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyzgrace View Post
    I recently started work with a new employer in a small business park. Everyone in my office is very cautious with safety and defense, since there have been multiple armed robberies (punk with a gun says "give me all your money") in the parking lots after dark and even on weekends. Boss keeps a gun in their office and unless I'm in a dress on a particular day, I have my LCP on me at all times. I feel pretty confident playing through scenarios in my head and have learned a lot in this forum and others, but I have one that I think I'd like some opinions on.

    This question applies to more than just my potential office scenario, but for the sake of example; what happens in the event that I walk out the door after working late and have a gun in my face? I understand that no two situations are the same, but assuming;

    1) I'm carrying a purse with the usual wallet/phone/etc. in it.
    2) .380 is at about 10 o'clock IWB
    3) The BG is calm, but assertive, and seemingly has his gun under control and ready to use
    OR, just to hear two sides,
    3) The BG is young, flighty, yelling, and has his gun pointed at me, but shaking and unstable

    I have a lot of ways I've played it out but would really like to hear from you who are much more learned and experienced
    Do scenario training against realistic, resisting opponents and tell us what happens.

    Ideas are just that - ideas.

    Go test them and figure out what works.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Give him your money.

    All you heroes just got shot!
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    Give him your money.

    All you heroes just got shot!
    He took your money and shot you (never trust an armed robber).
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    Welcome to the group. Cehck out Cornered Cat

    There are many women with diffrent bodytypes on this board and each one of them will tell you there is a way to carry with a dress,pants or nothing at all. The most important step is that you carry. Trying to get Mrs. HKinNY to carry. Took a long time to get her to get license.

    As to Draw against somebody who has their gun out. Tough call. But I am going home to my family, so given the choice of me or him. They are not going to have a good day.

    Welcome again to the board.

  7. #22
    Member Array lyz_grace's Avatar
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    WOW, thank you all for the insight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    In that situation where they are essentially in your face and basically at contact distance, you have a couple options.

    1) Is to comply and hope for the best. (personally, I hate being at the mercy of a bad guy with a gun in my face. I'm not going to stand there, hand over my stuff and then be at the mercy of his whim and whimsy. Which is why I train extensively for option #2).

    2) If you are going to draw against someone who is holding a gun on you, the odds are much better if he is standing up close at contact distance, than if he is holding the gun on you standing several feet away. But you are going to have to go hands on as you draw and shoot.

    First you want to move to the side in an explosive and surprise action (which side you move to depends on whether or not you are right or left handed, and which hand the gunman is holding his gun). You don't want to be standing in the same place where he initiated his confrontation.

    Second, with your non-gun hand, you are going to want to deflect his gun to the outside of your body, or depending on the the way the two of you are positioned, you'll want to pin his gun to his chest.

    Third, you are going to want to draw and empty your gun into his chest as fast as you can pull the trigger.

    Basically, all three actions need to happen simultaneously in one fluid movement. This is something which needs to be trained for extensively and consistently. I'm talking hours at a time, with a partner, over and over again.

    There is also no substitute for professional training. That can not be overstressed. I used to teach handgun retention and disarming techniques and while they range from the simple to the complex, the key is constant training and practice.

    If you are not fluid and proficient in your technique, it could be totally disastrous to attempt and may be the last act you'll ever perform. Do not underestimate the amount of guts it takes to do that. Once you start, if you hesitate, you'll likely be killed outright.

    If you are not committed to learning how to respond to such situations, I would go for Option #1.

    It is not impossible to draw against someone who has the drop on you. It is not impossible to disarm your attacker. In fact, it happens quite regularly with law enforcement officers who have had proper training. Law enforcement officers are only human. They are no different that you or me. It all comes down to having the proper training, and the proper mindset and guts.
    I was trying to pick out a piece of this to respond to, but felt like it all needed to be reposted. Thank you so much for the detail, this was very helpful, even if just really good food for thought. At first I wanted to resign myself to "money isn't worth fighting back over," but like a lot of people posted already, what happens when he decides he doesn't want to leave a witness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Why would you not carry if you are wearing a dress?
    I do carry 100% of the time, but a majority of the time I have it actually on my person IWB. If I have an outfit that doesn't accommodate the IWB (which isn't often at all), I purse carry. Haven't gotten to try out any thigh/ankle holsters, but plan on it eventually.

    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    I've bookmarked a thread on Drawing Against The Drop, by Mr. Guantes (where has he been lately, btw?)

    Drawing Against The Drop (DATD)
    Wow, this is great - thank you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    The "calm punk" scenario gives you better odds of surviving the just-hand-it-over response. If you train for disarming and/or drawing on your attacker, you'll find that you don't win every time.

    With "shaky punk," it's more likely he'll shoot at any moment, regardless of what you do. In my city we've had several killings in the past year where the victim was shot after handing over his money.

    It's also worth noting that a street punk may be carrying an unloaded gun, or a gun that won't fire. You can't bet your life on that assumption, but if you choose to resist there's a less than 100-percent chance his gun is operative.
    This is one of the biggest things I had a hard time working past. Either you try to diffuse the situation, hand over what they want and get shot anyway, or you bring them down and find out they had a cap gun.

    Thanks again to everybody, you were all extremely helpful. I've grown up around guns but am relatively new to the world of handguns for self-defense. I have not taken any formal SD training, but plan on it once I find a reputable class and have the money

    **EDIT** you posted while I was writing, HKinNY, but thank you - I actually get emails from Cornered Cat and subscribe to her on FB, I love all of the things she writes and articles she relays! Thanks!

  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    First welcome to the Farm! and hoping you never need your weapon!

    Here is a video for Carry Options: Concealed Carry Holsters & Outfits for Women - YouTube

    I would suggest some SD training such as a course by Massad Ayoob or similar and I know there are several good groups in your area.

    Note you're wise not to carry in your purse as that is the first thing a BG goes after! Remember Tweeker or even someone "long in the tooth" can squeeze the trigger faster than you can draw your weapon.

    Again welcome to the forum!


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  9. #24
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    Another welcome!

    And here's a story of "feigned compliance" that had a good outcome "against the drop" as it were... I'm seriously considering a wallet holsterable .380 for this very reason... and If you are purse carrying, it certainly might work in that application as well...

    Link to story
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    He took your money and shot you (never trust an armed robber).
    Even if he has an honest face?

    Michael

  11. #26
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    They did not interrogate him. Corley was offered the opportunity to make a voluntary statement, which he did.
    Don't they teach attorneys anything there...like KYBYS (keep yer big yap shut)?

  12. #27
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    a site for the woman who carries a gun
    Cornered Cat
    lyz_grace likes this.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    Give him your money.

    All you heroes just got shot!
    Yep. Do like Eve Carson. Give em what they want.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyzgrace View Post
    ...unless I'm in a dress on a particular day, I have my LCP on me at all times.
    Thigh Holster (for women's concealed carry) - YouTube

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdf3834 View Post
    Yep. Do like Eve Carson. Give em what they want.
    That's apples to oranges. She was taken forcibly from her home.

    Some with a lot of defensive training may have a chance against a BG with a gun already drawn on them. Average CCW'ers who already have a gun drawn on them probably won't fare so well.

    I don't trust a BG but I know my limitations.

    Every situation is different, but for the average Joe to say he's going to do some ninja move is simply comedic.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

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