Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs?

This is a discussion on Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Haha...it is funny how the links to Sonya's vids on Falia Photography pop up so fast when we find a woman asking quesitons. Sonya (Sonia?) ...

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Thread: Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Okemo's Avatar
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    Haha...it is funny how the links to Sonya's vids on Falia Photography pop up so fast when we find a woman asking quesitons. Sonya (Sonia?) has some awesome vids that make a guy think a few things about how to carry. (And a few other things too).

    Welcome to the forum. Look forward to your input on the day to day carry lifestyle.
    And you know I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view. -- John Prine (A Good Time)

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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    lyzgrace, if you have the will and desire to fight back against a gun you need to get training and it needs to be formal gunfighting training. There are probably more but the one I recommend is Suarez International. They have classes that teach you to Get Off The X (GOTX) and shoot the BG to the ground. This may be something you will want to check out. With all the different classes they have you can go about as far as you would want in the hows of winning a fight.

    As with all schools you will find that some people like them and some don't. As for me I'm very glad I found them. I went from having the feeling of being on the wrong end of the stick if I was to ever been in a bad situation to having the confedence of being able to come out on top.

    check out what they have to offer.
    Suarez International USA, Inc.
    Bark'n likes this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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  4. #33
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    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  5. #34
    Member Array lyz_grace's Avatar
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    Big thanks to everyone again - I am doing a lot of research on finding a reputable class around me, so that is something I'm serious about completing. And when I was looking for my first holster I think I must have watched faliaphotography's youtube videos at least three times each and I've posted them on multiple other forums! I've also been on Cornered Cat's mailing list for a while, too, so it's good to know I've already found some defensivecarry.com - approved resources!!
    Last edited by lyz_grace; December 21st, 2011 at 03:07 PM.

  6. #35
    Member Array jdf3834's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    That's apples to oranges. She was taken forcibly from her home.
    My point was that she complied with the BGs and gave them what they wanted. She ended up getting a shotgun blast to the head after praying for them.

  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    Give him your money.

    All you heroes just got shot!
    Today you have to think a little farther out than that to survive.

    If giving it up would guarantee your life then all would be fine. But it doesn't work that way much anymore.

    You have to be able to control your fear and not panic. Without panic you can think fast and figure out something that can save your life. This also means training as has already been said over and over.
    Secret Spuk likes this.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    Today you have to think a little farther out than that to survive.

    If giving it up would guarantee your life then all would be fine. But it doesn't work that way much anymore.

    You have to be able to control your fear and not panic. Without panic you can think fast and figure out something that can save your life. This also means training as has already been said over and over.
    All that is very true. Today, criminals tend, (or seem to be) much more vicious. Convenience store robberies are ending more and more often with the clerk being killed even after demonstrating full and complete compliance with the robber. We see it on the evening news with the benefit of in store video surveillance of it happening. It has happened at least half a dozen times or more, in Kansas City alone in just the last year and it is happening in every state as well.

    Tally XD is correct about not panicking. If you have trained sufficiently on a specific set of responses you are less likely to panic in a given situation. If you don't panic, your mind (and body) is free to focus on solving the challenge you face. You are more able to react with a set response which has been pre-programed and practiced.

    If on the other hand, you've gone out and spent 4 or 5 hours learning a technique to disarm someone, and then never spend any time practicing it. Never revisit it to keep it part of your well practiced muscle memory, then you are faced with a situation 2, 4 or 6 years after you initially learned how to do it, your chance of successfully completing it is likely to be as if you never learned it at all.

    The skills it takes to draw against the drop or to disarm someone are skills which diminish rapidly if not constantly practiced. It takes much less time to forget how to correctly perform a disarming technique than it took to learn it if you don't regularly practice it.

    I would recommend, once you learn a skill set to the point you are proficient, you should revisit it and practice at least on a monthly basis to keep your skills honed. More often would be even better. People like FBI Agent Jelly Bryce, Border Patrol Agent Bill Jordan, Col. Rex Applegate, NYPD Officer Jim Cirillo were all known to have practiced constantly. Sometimes up to 8 hours in a single practice session.

    What does all this mean for the average Joe/Jane CCW person? Don't delude yourself. The men mentioned above were all men who carried guns for a living. They were all involved in multiple gunfights and all had incidents where they successfully drew against guns already drawn on them. But they were committed to their training. They weren't the average police officers. They were the innovators, and were on the cutting edge. What it means for the average CCW holder is that it is likely very fool hearty to attempt to do something you are not familiar with and have not trained for to a level most people feel is worth the effort.

    Remember, we are not talking live fire here. It doesn't cost any money for ammo to practice these life saving skills being discussed here. It only takes your time, energy and a level of commitment on your part. Much of it doesn't even need a training partner. But some of it does so you'll need someone equally committed to training with you. Also, once you are proficient, you don't need to spend nearly as much time during your practice sessions as you did learning it initially. You mainly need to repeat it several times to keep the fine points fresh. But if you don't keep it up on a regular basis, you'll be surprised how quickly you lose it.
    oakchas and Tally XD like this.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I guess everyone has their hopes, and their thoughts. To some of them.... good luck.

    If a gun is literally in my face, I'm going to do everything to "seem" to comply, not be a threat so they relax, and watch for the best moment. The initial "scare them into compliance" is what the robber is attempting to do. Make you feel intimidated and scared , so scared you won't do anything but comply.

    But, by complying or seeming to, they will often start to drop their guard (unless they are a quick grab and run artist) ..... and take their attention off of you some as they feel they are in control. Look for the 'right ' moment .....

    Training for it, would be a good thing to do.

    Here , you may enjoy this video (go full screen): Merry Christmas from TIGER Valley 2010 on Vimeo
    Last edited by Eagleks; December 23rd, 2011 at 01:44 AM.
    NYCrulesU likes this.
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  10. #39
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    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Bark'n is right... compliance doesn't always work....

    Bad: compliance doesn't work.

    Update on "Sometimes compliance doesn't work"

    However, feigned compliance may give you a chance... as Eagleks points out...
    It could be worse.
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams
    "A gun is kind of like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again".

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    I carry my LCP in a wallet holster in either my front pocket or in my back right pocket. While it may look to a BG that I'm pulling my wallet, the surprise is on them. I think every incident will be different. Thats where it will come down to situational awareness. Is the hammer cocked? How close is the BG? Is there cover between or near us?

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    How many of you heros giving advice to this woman train everyday or every week in combatives? Train for this situation weak hand, strong hand, wearing different set of clothes, different environmental conditions. Train for this with the BG left handed, right handed? Do you know what hand his gun is in if he is behind you? Does he have back up? Somebody in a car or out of your sight? What happens when you make your heroic turn to knock his arm out of the way and the gun goes off disorienting you and maybe diminishing night vision if this happens in a darkened area? What if he is prepared for you or anticipating something (not all crooks are dummies and they read these sites). And a bunch of you heros are saying well, I am going home to my family and this guy will have a bad day or some other poor bravado advice.
    Fact: You are more likely than not to not be harmed if you give them your purse/wallet. For the ladies mostly, if you feel this is a rape situation then things are different. My wife would go down fighting. But the womans scenario is robbery. Stop with the example of the person getting killed. It happens. But not as often. Happens more when you fight back. This does not make you a wimp. It makes you smart so you can go home to your family. And unless you are 100 percent sure it is going to work don't try it, and guess what......it isn't going to be 100 percent. Not even close.
    If you are so concerned about your possesions, carry a false wallet and give them that. And if not, who cares, cancel your credit cards. How much cash do you really carry in your wallet that you can't get by with.
    You need to practice this every couple of weeks to make it work. I did combativies twice a week with professionals when I wasn't deployed and it is not an easy thing to do with all that training. If he has a partner your dead.
    Best advice ma'am is this: make up your own mind. Get the training if you feel it is necessary and if you do, continue it at least 4 times a month. It is perishable. God forbid you feel the guy is a rapists, if so, dump the mouse gun and get a service caliber gun because every shot needs to be able to stop the BG. Get a revolver with the anticipation you might have to shoot through clothing or a purse. If you get a semi then plan accordingly.
    Hope you stay safe.
    NYCrulesU likes this.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Compliance, the life you save may not be your own. It may be your attackers life you save.

    Michael

  15. #44
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    How many of you heros giving advice to this woman train everyday or every week in combatives? Train for this situation weak hand, strong hand, wearing different set of clothes, different environmental conditions. Train for this with the BG left handed, right handed? Do you know what hand his gun is in if he is behind you? Does he have back up? Somebody in a car or out of your sight? What happens when you make your heroic turn to knock his arm out of the way and the gun goes off disorienting you and maybe diminishing night vision if this happens in a darkened area? What if he is prepared for you or anticipating something (not all crooks are dummies and they read these sites). And a bunch of you heros are saying well, I am going home to my family and this guy will have a bad day or some other poor bravado advice.
    Fact: You are more likely than not to not be harmed if you give them your purse/wallet. For the ladies mostly, if you feel this is a rape situation then things are different. My wife would go down fighting. But the womans scenario is robbery. Stop with the example of the person getting killed. It happens. But not as often. Happens more when you fight back. This does not make you a wimp. It makes you smart so you can go home to your family. And unless you are 100 percent sure it is going to work don't try it, and guess what......it isn't going to be 100 percent. Not even close.
    If you are so concerned about your possesions, carry a false wallet and give them that. And if not, who cares, cancel your credit cards. How much cash do you really carry in your wallet that you can't get by with.
    You need to practice this every couple of weeks to make it work. I did combativies twice a week with professionals when I wasn't deployed and it is not an easy thing to do with all that training. If he has a partner your dead.
    Best advice ma'am is this: make up your own mind. Get the training if you feel it is necessary and if you do, continue it at least 4 times a month. It is perishable. God forbid you feel the guy is a rapists, if so, dump the mouse gun and get a service caliber gun because every shot needs to be able to stop the BG. Get a revolver with the anticipation you might have to shoot through clothing or a purse. If you get a semi then plan accordingly.
    Hope you stay safe.
    Hero? No. Practice, three, four, times a week. Maybe more if Im bored. If you want to comply, by all means do so. However some of us are sick and tired of that line of BS. You get off the X, you pull your weapon and you end the dam threat. If you cannot do that, then please leave your gun at home and join the rest of society with there heads in the sand.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Hero? No. Practice, three, four, times a week. Maybe more if Im bored. If you want to comply, by all means do so. However some of us are sick and tired of that line of BS. You get off the X, you pull your weapon and you end the dam threat. If you cannot do that, then please leave your gun at home and join the rest of society with there heads in the sand.
    Some simply cannot post as much as we do here and have time to practice, as well... That said, I do practice... not as much as I should... but, and this is a big but...

    There are ways to get around the lack of training... and I believe EVERYONE should have a fighting chance... Feigning compliance, increased SA, and staying away from bad places as much as possible, are some ways around it...

    The gun should only be used in the gravest extreme, according to some who have been there done that more than you or I... But in the end, it is an equalizer.

    And you can be cunning, and not go hand to hand, and still win the day. I choose to use my brains as well as what ever else I have, to keep me on top...
    NYCrulesU likes this.
    It could be worse.
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams
    "A gun is kind of like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again".

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