Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs?

Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs?

This is a discussion on Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I recently started work with a new employer in a small business park. Everyone in my office is very cautious with safety and defense, since ...

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Thread: Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs?

  1. #1
    Member Array lyz_grace's Avatar
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    Drawing once you're in the BG's crosshairs?

    I recently started work with a new employer in a small business park. Everyone in my office is very cautious with safety and defense, since there have been multiple armed robberies (punk with a gun says "give me all your money") in the parking lots after dark and even on weekends. Boss keeps a gun in their office and unless I'm in a dress on a particular day, I have my LCP on me at all times. I feel pretty confident playing through scenarios in my head and have learned a lot in this forum and others, but I have one that I think I'd like some opinions on.

    This question applies to more than just my potential office scenario, but for the sake of example; what happens in the event that I walk out the door after working late and have a gun in my face? I understand that no two situations are the same, but assuming;

    1) I'm carrying a purse with the usual wallet/phone/etc. in it.
    2) .380 is at about 10 o'clock IWB
    3) The BG is calm, but assertive, and seemingly has his gun under control and ready to use
    OR, just to hear two sides,
    3) The BG is young, flighty, yelling, and has his gun pointed at me, but shaking and unstable

    I have a lot of ways I've played it out but would really like to hear from you who are much more learned and experienced

    **EDIT** Just to save people time - a few of you have taken the time to link me to Cornered Cat and FaliaPhotography's youtube videos for women's carry. Thank you SO much, while I was searching for my first holster I watched every one of Falia's videos and am a Cornered Cat subscriber, I love all of the info they both share.
    Last edited by lyz_grace; December 20th, 2011 at 04:32 PM.


  2. #2
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    1) get out of his cross hairs
    2) get him in yours
    "Just blame Sixto"

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    out drawing a gun that is already pointed at you is very bad odds. Do all you can to see something like this coming prior to having the gun in your face. bright outside lights, all of you leave in a group. barring all that and more, if the choice is to just give up money, they can have it. If my gun is going to be discovered, I draw anyway, get off the X and hope for the best.
    9MMare likes this.
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  4. #4
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    In that situation where they are essentially in your face and basically at contact distance, you have a couple options.

    1) Is to comply and hope for the best. (personally, I hate being at the mercy of a bad guy with a gun in my face. I'm not going to stand there, hand over my stuff and then be at the mercy of his whim and whimsy. Which is why I train extensively for option #2).

    2) If you are going to draw against someone who is holding a gun on you, the odds are much better if he is standing up close at contact distance, than if he is holding the gun on you standing several feet away. But you are going to have to go hands on as you draw and shoot.

    First you want to move to the side in an explosive and surprise action (which side you move to depends on whether or not you are right or left handed, and which hand the gunman is holding his gun). You don't want to be standing in the same place where he initiated his confrontation.

    Second, with your non-gun hand, you are going to want to deflect his gun to the outside of your body, or depending on the the way the two of you are positioned, you'll want to pin his gun to his chest.

    Third, you are going to want to draw and empty your gun into his chest as fast as you can pull the trigger.

    Basically, all three actions need to happen simultaneously in one fluid movement. This is something which needs to be trained for extensively and consistently. I'm talking hours at a time, with a partner, over and over again.

    There is also no substitute for professional training. That can not be overstressed. I used to teach handgun retention and disarming techniques and while they range from the simple to the complex, the key is constant training and practice.

    If you are not fluid and proficient in your technique, it could be totally disastrous to attempt and may be the last act you'll ever perform. Do not underestimate the amount of guts it takes to do that. Once you start, if you hesitate, you'll likely be killed outright.

    If you are not committed to learning how to respond to such situations, I would go for Option #1.

    It is not impossible to draw against someone who has the drop on you. It is not impossible to disarm your attacker. In fact, it happens quite regularly with law enforcement officers who have had proper training. Law enforcement officers are only human. They are no different that you or me. It all comes down to having the proper training, and the proper mindset and guts.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    have you done any kind of SD training? if not I wouldn't attempt to draw on someone holding a gun on me.
    if yes and you are willing to spin the dice, move! get off his line of fire, make him follow you with the gun and try and get behind any kind of cover, then draw and fire.
    letting a BG get the "drop" on you is a bad place to be, work on your SA and be aware of what is happening in that parking lot before venturing out there, also since that lot has a history of being dangerous consider have the gun in your hand until you reach your car.
    JerryMac and Dan_the_man like this.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Why would you not carry if you are wearing a dress?

    There's a member here that did several videos on CC for fems. Surprised me on the wheres and hows.

    Give me a few, I'll see if I can find it.


    ...Found it. Link to at least one of her videos at post 94 (the post # 1 link is dead so to speak). IIRC she has several.

    She Knows Her Stuff (vid)
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Move... Move... Move... As Sixto so eloquently stated... Get out of his cross hairs, and get him/her into yours. (KUDOS) As I've stated before. I dont believe that a quick draw is as tactically important or usefull as cover, concielment, proper grip, sight alignment if possible, and shot placement.

    We all must keep in mind the axiom... He who fights and run's away, lives to fight another day. Sometimes the answer is to GTFOOD. The more distance you put between you and this bad guy the harder it is for him to hit you...

    Just my opinion...
    wmhawth likes this.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Bark'n offers good advice. Particularly here:

    all three actions need to happen simultaneously in one fluid movement. This is something which needs to be trained for extensively and consistently. I'm talking hours at a time, with a partner, over and over again.
    The same applies to knife defense, and to an extent it's part of unarmed combat. Once you start doing whatever you do, the engagement has to be a constant unfolding without pause on your part.

    The "calm punk" scenario gives you better odds of surviving the just-hand-it-over response. If you train for disarming and/or drawing on your attacker, you'll find that you don't win every time.

    With "shaky punk," it's more likely he'll shoot at any moment, regardless of what you do. In my city we've had several killings in the past year where the victim was shot after handing over his money.

    It's also worth noting that a street punk may be carrying an unloaded gun, or a gun that won't fire. You can't bet your life on that assumption, but if you choose to resist there's a less than 100-percent chance his gun is operative.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  9. #9
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    Just checked and the video has been pulled.....


    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post

    There's a member here that did several videos on CC for fems. Surprised me on the wheres and hows.

    Give me a few, I'll see if I can find it.


    ...Found it. Link to at least one of her videos at post 94 (the post # 1 link is dead so to speak). IIRC she has several.

    She Knows Her Stuff (vid)
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    Just checked and the video has been pulled.....
    Post #94 in that thread. Worked at 0400 this date.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Leaving aside a specific answer to this thread, my first thoughts centered on situational awareness, several people leaving together, etal. If there is such a problem at your office complex, the solution is not how you address it after the fact but how you address it before the fact. Always what if and it would seem that if the gun is aimed at you already your options are now over.
    Bark'n likes this.

  12. #12
    Member Array BadgerMan's Avatar
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    Good points mentioned above, something else to consider would be to pocket carry (or perhaps you can do something similar with your purse) and when you are moving through this more dangerous area, have your hand already on your gun. You will be that much closer to having your pistol ready, though if you need both of your hands for something you will have a slight disadvantage at first. In a pinch, depending on your gun and exactly how it is carried, you may be able to shoot through your garment or purse.

  13. #13
    Member Array Speculator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyzgrace View Post
    I recently started work with a new employer in a small business park. Everyone in my office is very cautious with safety and defense, since there have been multiple armed robberies (punk with a gun says "give me all your money") in the parking lots after dark and even on weekends. Boss keeps a gun in their office and unless I'm in a dress on a particular day, I have my LCP on me at all times. I feel pretty confident playing through scenarios in my head and have learned a lot in this forum and others, but I have one that I think I'd like some opinions on.
    Here's an answer for you. Wear a light jacket and before exiting the building, put your firearm in the pocket, finger off trigger, then proceed to your car. That way you already have an advantage and can, if confronted, shoot through the pocket. AND, try to leave the building with a buddy/coworker. BGs are reluctant to confront two people walking together, preferring to isolate a soft target.

    Why is this a good strategy? You already know these incidents are occurring so you can take pre-emptive steps to prepare and not be over-reacting. Be especially careful to get into your car with heightened awareness - don't be fumbling with keys. Park facing out so you can pull out with ease.

    ALSO, if you can prove this is happening, ask management to hire a guard to patrol the parking lot during quitting time.

    HTH

    EDIT to add: Oops, didn't see the post above, so I support that 'hand on gun in pocket carry'.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    I like the pistol in a windbreaker pocket idea. No reason you can't do this with an LCP, but a revolver may be more likely to fire repeatedly from this position, though Massad Ayoob said in one of his classes he had some people try firing small autos from inside an old coat, and they didn't have any malfunctions.

    Like Billy the Kid said, nobody ever outdrew a gun that was already pointed at them.

    Of course, this will take some practice at shooting from the hip, but with some practice, you can hit out to 7 yards or so fairly easily.
    Not my circus, not my monkeys.

  15. #15
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    I've bookmarked a thread on Drawing Against The Drop, by Mr. Guantes (where has he been lately, btw?)

    Drawing Against The Drop (DATD)
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    'Clinging to my guns and religion

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