Apocryphal fiction - sorry, quite long.

Apocryphal fiction - sorry, quite long.

This is a discussion on Apocryphal fiction - sorry, quite long. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I wrote this - pretty much as an excercize - having thought yet again about discussions we have had regarding how much or little we ...

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Thread: Apocryphal fiction - sorry, quite long.

  1. #1
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    Apocryphal fiction - sorry, quite long.

    I wrote this - pretty much as an excercize - having thought yet again about discussions we have had regarding how much or little we should carry. Most know I am a dedicated carrier - all times of day even at home. I never want to reach to my hip that one time in a million - only to find nothing!

    I want to survive to die a natural death!

    This is long - but it is presented as something that just might be a genuine account of a slightly casual CCW person's history - a real person - the sort of person who thinks they can judge risk place by place, day by day. Some of us know different.

    Yes it is fiction but its purpose is to provoke thought. I would not want to see any one of our members compromized - having taken the decision to carry and take responsibility for their safety. We are or should be survivors - let's keep it that way. Imagine this is real.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Jeremy was 48 when he died.


    He was born in NW Pennsylvania near Newcastle and grew up on a farm with guns all around. He hunted and enjoyed shooting of all types, tho his favorite was perhaps long range rifle. He was lucky that during his teen years he was able to make good use of the 140 acre land his parents owned, to shoot out to five hundred yards. His eighteenth birthday present was a Tikka in .308, which soon became his favorite, both for long range and white tail hunting. Oddly his younger brother Brad had no interest in guns at all.

    He left home aged 20, after some post graduation temporary jobs had earned him enough to go to the big city of Pittsburgh and find an apartment with his friend Mason - following having enrolled in the University of Pittsburgh to study for engineering. His academic time was trouble free and he majored in mechanical engineering at age 24. He was a grade A student.

    Soon after, he got a lucky break after meeting a senior research engineer in a company based in Munroeville, just outside of Pittsburgh - where he found a position as a junior development engineer working on gas burners for assisted flu heaters. He gave up his old apartment and found a new one by himself close to work. Everything went well - over time he settled in and his position advanced such that by age 28 he was number two in his laboratory - life was good.

    It was then that he met Nancy - a girl working in the company. They hit it off and a year later got married. By this time Jeremy was earning well and so he bought them a small house in nearby Murrysville - an ideal first home for young folks.

    He had always kept a revolver under his pillow since early college days, plus a shotgun propped up in the closet - feeling that some in house protection was wise. He was lucky that Nancy respected this and he continued to follow much the same regime in the new house. Beyond this he was never too worried about self defence as he felt the area was good and he didn't generally go anywhere risky.

    After near ten years more he had been promoted to head of his department, his old buddy having retired, and he felt things could hardly be any better. He had now also gotten two beautiful children with Nancy - a golden haired little girl of eight, Tiffany, and a son aged five, Jason.

    The company expanded considerably over time and wanted him to move to Harrisburg where the main headquarters was based, to set up a new facility for more advanced development work on the burners. This was exciting news and the prospects just seemed to get better and better. He accepted his new position and they all moved out to the outskirts of Harrisburg, finding a nice luxury house in what seemed a good area.

    All went well until about four years later, when local development took another turn, resulting in budget properties being built a mere quarter mile way. He and Nancy were not too concerned - their neighbors were pleasant and the street was well kept and secure. They found good schools also for the kids - by now twelve and nine. He still kept a revolver in the bedroom but because of the kids, as before, stored in a combination lock room safe by the bed - it was all he felt he should need - the shotgun was locked in his big safe with some other guns.

    Another two years passed but things were not so happy in the area. Work was fine and money was rolling in but, the budget housing nearby was being taken over by all sorts of dubious characters and he got to hear of drug raids and shootings. This made him more aware of his need to protect Nancy and the kids and a burglary three doors away made that seem even more worthwhile. His good neighborhood seemed to be suffering some problems from without. He could see that his neighborhood money attracted crime.

    It was following an armed robbery at the 7/11 barely a half mile away - a store they used quite a lot for simple grocery needs - that Jeremy got to thinking about having some protection outside of his home, so he investigated his options. It was soon clear that he could get a carry permit quite readily from his county Sheriff's office and as he had a pristine record it was an easy thing to accomplish. He knew he could carry into work because he knew of no limitations, added to which he was somewhat his own boss in his area of work. His experience with firearms over many years also equipped him well.

    Over time he developed a strategy for his carry, which he had chosen to be his Ruger SP-101, a small revolver he liked a lot and had practiced with considerably, using a CorBon 110 +P round as his favored load. He had a comfortable pancake rig which he kept on his belt all day - cover was really no problem as he could dress informal and kept a long shirt on the outside almost all times. When in his lab he wore a lab coat too which really made that carry a cinch!

    The one thing he did make a habit, was when he got home he took off his gun and put it in the bedside combination safe, beside his old Security Six house gun. He didn't want to have that extra bulk on his belt when relaxing in the evening and he felt he was sufficiently low on risk to not need it. The only problem he had though was that if he went out later he had to remember to replace the SP - if he felt it was needed. Often, if he took the family pooch for a walk early evening, but he thought it was hardly worth the trouble to ''tool up'' - it was too much effort.

    This was essentially his plan over several years - and by the time his kids were growing up at eighteen and fifteen respectively - his feeling of need for family overall protection had diminished a bit more - even tho his less than desirable neighbors in the budget housing were still well into drugs and theft. He thought he could always assess risk and so if things seemed ''safe'' on any particular occasion, he would not add the gun - wanting to feel free of incumbrance. If he had to go and fetch milk or bread from the local store he would not always bother to take the gun - sometimes yes, sometimes no.

    Three days after his 48th birthday, he went as usual to fetch a few groceries - it was not late, probably around 8.30 pm on an early winter evening in November. The kids were home and Nancy had some cooking on the go - ready to serve a late dinner. Jason had a temp job and was late home from that - Tiffany was assiduously doing homework. He was only wanting a very few things and as he left the house wondered if he should put the SP in place. A moment's thought and it seemed just too much trouble for such a short outing - he was after all halfways to the car already.

    Jeremy parked up at the store and soon found the few items he wanted. As he waited at the checkout, he was aware of a ruccus near the entrance door. He turned to see what was going on and saw a rough set guy charging in past an exiting customer - spewing much bad language. He thought little of it until he heard a demand from the same location - ''I want money - give me money or else''. There was no one else in the store now.

    He turned to look again and noticed the guy was brandishing a semi auto handgun. He immediately went to put his hand on his right hip where the SP usually lived - but of course his holster was empty - this time out he had not put the gun in. He felt vulnerable and had a sinking feeling, he then reached into his left pants pocket for his Spyderco folder - the only thing he had as a weapon.

    The bad guy advanced toward the check out - still waving his gun around - he was very hyped up and agitated. The clerk was white in the face not knowing what to expect but fumbled in the register to procure some cash and handed over a wad of bills. The bad guy scooped those up and promptly fired two shots at the clerk who fell to the floor.

    Jeremy, with knife in hand, prepared to take on the guy as best he could but was not close enough to wield the blade effectively. He kept it concealed against his hand and felt all but helpless. The bad guy turned to him and demanded his wallet. As Jeremy fumbled for his wallet the bad guy shouted obscenities, wanting him to be faster but the situation was so charged that he could not extract it from his rear pants pocket at all easily and his right hand still had the knife - he could not seem to see an opening for its use - not with the gun right up close to him.

    The bad guy got ever more impatient and waved his gun vigorously - finally pulling the trigger and shooting Jeremy in the face with with one shot. All Jeremy knew was a brief flash of light and then darkness. He was dead before he hit the floor.

    The bad guy made a getaway but was apprehended two blocks away because a pedestrian ouside had put in a 911 call after the first two shots were heard. The cops challenged him only to be met by shots. They returned fire and took him out.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    So what was the end result when analysed??? A man of 48 died because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time - and had forgotten, as happened sometimes, to carry his gun. It did not seem worth the trouble. Had he had that, not only might the clerk have lived but very likely he would have - because he would have probably had ample opportnity to get shots off safely at an early stage to neutralize the threat.

    Because of his oversight in not carrying, because he thought the trip was bound to be a safe one - he left a devoted wife and mother a widow and two children, even tho growing up - suddenly fatherless. What is the moral of this event?

    Simple!! If a person can legally carry - why assume that every outing without the gun has to be, by default, a safe one! Things happen and often when least expected. Had Jeremy carried all the time he would have had a good chance of not only surviving himself, but also been able to save the clerk's life - she died too from two serious chest wounds.

    If you carry - make it your dedication. Not only to make sure you go home in one piece but to ensure your family remains intact - to live to old age.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.


  2. #2
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    Very nice "story", Chris...real food for thought. I sometimes leave home without my HK, usually for the sake of "convienience" as I'm only going to be out for a few minutes, but the thought always goes through my mind "what if?"
    "I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York

    "They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    What is the moral of this event?
    "Murphy" is an optimist. Something can happen anywhere, but if Murphy is right then one thing is true: It will likely be when least expected.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 18th, 2006 at 02:49 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array JohnKelly's Avatar
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    Great story Chris, and food for thought. One of the reasons I carry inside my home is that I don't have to remember to strap on the gun when I leave -- it's already on my hip. Plus protection against home invasions.

    If I thought I needed a gun when I was going out, I'd stay home instead. It's for when you think you *won't* need it... but find you do.
    Last edited by JohnKelly; August 18th, 2006 at 09:25 AM.

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    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Good work, Chris! It's extremely unlikely that a weapon will ever be necessary when going about everyday life, but in that very unlikely event, there's no substitute. Hope for the best, plan for the worst! When I was working on my pilot's license, we did drill after drill on "engine out" and other emergency procedures. I've never needed to use them, but I'm sure glad I know how!
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  6. #6
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    A good reason to carry when ever legal.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Old Chief's Avatar
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    Your story makes one think. The reason we carry is protection and it needs to be every waking moment everywhere.

  8. #8
    New Member Array Don Q's Avatar
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    Cool

    I just recently received my CCW and of course one wants to be very careful, have run different scenarios and carefully planned when to or not to use the weapon. This scenario is one that has crossed my mind in many occasions, since it is almost impossible to know what can happen a minute from now, if you have the tools, then have them with you when walking out that door. I never go out looking for a fight, I go out thinking as clearly as possible and as aware as possible of my surroundings. Murphy might be around the corner.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    95, awesome, there was recently a story on the news here in NC where some bad guys came into Mcdonalds during breakfast hours and forced everyone into the freezer. I ran the scenario over in my head as to what would I do and what weapon would have been better. I tell you it's important to think what you would do ?

    Reason, I say this is because just imagine if the BG begins to frisk everyone and finds your pistol because you second guessed. This could be nasty because you will die. I have made my mind up that in this situation I am shooting because if they find it you are dead. Good post Chris and this goes back to a post we had earlier never under estimate your point irregardless of which way they hold their weapon.

    Guys and Gals if you have decided to carry a pistol you have placed alot on your shoulders. Now, this is not to say that you pretend to be dirty Harry, but be willing to defend yourself without guessing. I tell ya, I love my .38, but the 1911 continues to speak to me and say "Don't leave me in the safe"
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    Good work, Chris! It's extremely unlikely that a weapon will ever be necessary when going about everyday life, but in that very unlikely event, there's no substitute. Hope for the best, plan for the worst! When I was working on my pilot's license, we did drill after drill on "engine out" and other emergency procedures. I've never needed to use them, but I'm sure glad I know how!
    I disagree soldier, in my opinion I live everyday as if I could need my weapon at a moments notice because when you start to say that it is "extremely unlikely that a weapon will ever be necessary.....(in) everday life." You are really setting yourself up to be just like the guy in 95's story. The guy became complacent, I mean my town is fairly quite and one day I decided that hey, there is no real need for me to go home to arm after leaving work before going to the grocery store and I did not. Well, I felt naked and I had just seriously hindered my ability to fight. I have always been trained as you mentioned expect the worse and pray for the best, well you can't deal with the worse if your weapon or your mindset is at home.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  11. #11
    Member Array soundwave's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    This is one of my "worst case scenarios" that I've ever played in my head. Not the part about not having a firearm with me (because I carry it whenever legal), but the part of the story that covers the cashier giving the money and then being shot.

    I have seen many people respond to various posts all over this site to sit tight and be a good witness and this is the distinct problem that I have in these robbery situations. You stand by and play "good witness" and then someone is shot for complying -- and you had an opportunity to stop it. I'm not saying that you could stop it, or that it would have helped, maybe it would fail despite the intervention... but you had a chance and you didn't take it.

    I'm sorry, but this is the reason why I would feel I would have to intervene in a robbery scenario. I couldn't live with myself if I had the opportunity to do something, and didn't, and someone was killed. You never know if the robber had made the decision to kill them if they complied, just as much as you never know if a situation would ever arise that you would need to actually use a firearm in the defense of yourself or yours. And frankly, I just can't take that chance.

    Even though a cashier at a miscellaneous store is not your family, your friend, or even someone you know without looking at their name tag -- they're a person -- a person with friends, with family and they deserve a chance to not have that taken away from them. While they may not be armed because they are a or they are afraid of guns, don't see the need for them, or maybe they aren't allowed to carry because of company policy or law... But you are. And you have a chance to do something.

    I would take it.

    Cheers.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Zundfolge's Avatar
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    This is why I am an advocate of 24/7/365 carry and why I oppose restrictions on carry at places like banks, churches, bars and the workplace.

    If you don't develop the 24/7/365 habit I'm convinced that both Murphy and God have enough of a sense of irony that you'll end up needing your gun the most when you're unarmed.

    A second version of this story could be that the trip to the store is uneventful, but some thug at the store notices the Rolex that the company gave him for 10 years of service so he follows him home with his "homies" and while the family is sitting down to dinner the front door bursts open and 3 gun wielding "disadvantaged yoots" run in shouting "Give up tha money *****!" but his gun is in the bedroom, locked in a safe next to his Security Six ... you can imagine the consequences now ... he's still dead but his wife and daughter get to become entertainment for a handful of thugs.


    I lived in Wichita Kansas most of my life and in December of 2000 two "disadvantaged yoots" pulled a home invasion robbery that entailed several hours of rape and brutality and ended with the 5 occupants of the house being taken naked out into a soccer field and a bullet put in each of their heads and run over by a truck (one of the women survived).

    That was the day I decided that "law be damned" I was not going to be caught unarmed. (Thank God that Kansas FINALLY has CCW...still not good enough to get me to move back ).

    If you want to do some independent reading on "The Wichita Massacre", you have to be careful as the White Power movement has taken it up as a cause celeb ("Remember Wichita" has become a battle cry for these idiots) so there's a lot of real bad articles and web sites on the net about it.

  13. #13
    Member Array soundwave's Avatar
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    From an article about the massacre:

    "...she was on her hands and knees and one of the Carr brothers was unzipping his pants, he laid a silver automatic pistol on the floor two feet away from her. She thought about making a grab for it but realized she had no idea how to operate a gun, and instead submitted to rape and attempted murder. Had she known how to use a weapon, her four friends might be alive today."

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    The bad guy scooped those up and promptly fired two shots at the clerk who fell to the floor.

    Jeremy, with knife in hand, prepared to take on the guy as best he could but was not close enough to wield the blade effectively. He kept it concealed against his hand and felt all but helpless.
    He died right then. If you feel the BG is going to kill you, it's time to attack- the difference between the knife and pistol is self-evident, but as-presented, misunderstood. If he was going on the offensive, it was time to go on the offensive.......or hide. Or get the wallet out, and be prepared to toss it.

    When the shooting starts, get your A** out of there, or attack, full-steam. Anything else is politely handing off the initiative.

    If possible, yes, carry 24/7, but mindset is what determines outcomes. I will again pitch my favorite: Unarmed? Pitch a Coke can at the firesprinkler (or jump and whack it) when the BG fires, and get out of the line of sight.

  15. #15
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    Interesting story Chris,

    It's one of the reasons I carry a truck pistol and rifle. I can't imagine forgetting the glock when I go out, but if I ever did, the g26 is always there for.

    I'd notice not having one as soon as I sat in the truck.

    This read may get people to think about their own situations and change where necessary, thereby potentially saving some member from the same fate.

    Like rob72 alludes, if he was that close, it would be H2H as soon as he put the gun on me. I'll not wait for his generousity or his negligent shooting to take me out.

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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