This is a discussion on confrontation within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Generally, I say its a bad idea to be in uniform when not actually performing your duties. Change when you get there, change when you ...
December 21st, 2011 05:14 PM
Generally, I say its a bad idea to be in uniform when not actually performing your duties. Change when you get there, change when you leave.
"Just blame Sixto"
I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.
December 21st, 2011 05:18 PM
"doesnt appear that the gun would have been an appropriate solution".
Many times the situations can go BAD quickly ,,,, and often the way you answer
someone can keep this from happening,,,,, heck they were probably SA's &
not BG's and they; from what I can tell never knew you were carrying.
I agree with Orange Boy "They were close, rude and aggressive". Precautions
were OK and anytime you are outnumbered; you had better be READY.
I agree (Orange Boy) about the pocket carry idea; also "it has some
very positive advantages". Pocket holsters do not work correctly for me.
Been pocket carrying for 40+ years. About the only advantage I see with a
holster is the gun will stay cleaner and more up right ,,,, but in a holster it is
recognized more often & I clean my gun regularly anyway,,,,
so this is a minor deal to holster or not holster. I say whatever
you are comfortable with; do it. I know I will.
mastercapt you stayed alert & you stayed alive. My only two
requirements when I carry.
December 21st, 2011 05:22 PM
May not have happened at all had you been open carrying.
December 21st, 2011 05:23 PM
Regarding pocket carry, when in uniform (non law eforcement etc.) and given certain corcumstances....oh say warm wether. It's either pocket or ankle carry, no other real option.
December 21st, 2011 05:31 PM
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
And Shepards we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee,
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, So that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command,
And we shall flow a river forth to Thee, And teeming with souls shall it ever be,
December 21st, 2011 05:40 PM
If this happened in Florida, it's a non issue as it's prohibited. Even then, see my above post re: Carrying in uniform.
Originally Posted by carracer
December 21st, 2011 06:57 PM
Perhaps no return comment, just a head nod could have been ample acknowledgement.
I would tend not to answer stupid questions, but I would make eyecontact, then mind my own business...just don't touch me.OMOYMV
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
December 21st, 2011 07:12 PM
I think you did good. Ppl don't realize if they aren't a smaller man. An older man and there's 3 rude aggressive males. It can be intimidating. You didn't brandish it or kowtow which could have lead to more aggression ime. Cowards get brave when others show fear.
December 21st, 2011 07:35 PM
It's not a good idea to underestimate anyone. The best predators can have a soft approach during the 'interview stage'. I would agree that just nodding would be better than saying anything. If you reply, you are buying into any game. A nod is less of a tell as to your state, imo.
Originally Posted by NYCrulesU
December 21st, 2011 08:00 PM
I agree, never underestimate anyone.
Originally Posted by Speculator
But walking around so fearful of everyone and anyone younger/different that a simple, playful question would require a "Back off punk!" while gripping your handgun...well that's just insane. But I have gotten a good laugh so I approve of this thread lol.
I guess this really boils down to self confidence or lack thereof.
December 21st, 2011 08:16 PM
A lot of good things to think about. I try not to put myself in confrontational situations. I'm too close to 70 and not in the best physical shape so running and fighting are not in the equation. Being scared is not a good feeling but aging is scary enough without brain dead punks adding to one's fears. I find having my hand near or on my CCW is a comfort to me, like a cane or a crutch and living in Florida makes pocket carry almost a necessity.
December 22nd, 2011 09:41 AM
Saying, "I specialize in search and rescue, so get lost," depending on delivery, is a good way to joke around and let them know you're not afraid. Back in the day I was arresting a minority for something when one of the onlookers said, "You're just arresting him because he's black!" I responded, "Well if that's true, it seems you're all in violation." The loudmouth was stunned for a second, then laughed out loud. Situation diffused.
IMHO there is nothing wrong with having a grip on your firearm in your pocket. BTW the OP never said if it was in a holster or not. Blasting the OP for having a grip is like blasting someone for having a gun in the first place. It is an invisible insurance policy. The OP didn't draw or brandish. Neither did he overtly go into a draw position as would have been the case if he was belt carrying. I often keep my hands in my pockets. Would you consider me constantly about to draw if there was a firearm in there?
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
December 22nd, 2011 10:28 AM
I thought about this thread last night after I read it yesterday and came up with the same e conclusion as NYCrulesU so I agree as well. I can not understand what glass house this guy grew up in for 55 years that makes him so terrified and has to stereotype every individual .... It is possible the guy that took that step at you could have wanted to shake your hand and say thanks for serving ????? Did that ever enter your mind ... no he was going to hurt me .... Wow not going to rant here.... I guess some people just do not have any street smarts .... Being from Florida he better study the use of Deadly Force laws again....
Son remeber this and you will go far ........
"The gunfight is in the head, not in the hands."
"God is Great... Beer is Good.... and People are Crazy"
December 22nd, 2011 10:48 AM
Originally Posted by paramedic70002
NYCrulesU? Well, that says it all.
Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon at large. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
December 22nd, 2011 11:15 AM
I agree with NYCrulesU.
Orangeboy posted "We're not here to discriminate and monday morning quarterback." I agree with the discriminate part but of course people are here to "monday morning QB'ing" or how about critiqueing. People post here all the time to see how others would react or wanting to know if they reacted properly. If they can not take a harsh criticism then to bad.
DocPMD says "If you choose to look like a thug, expect to get treated like one." That is mature. I would hate to have you as a non-biased juror someday. How about if you want to CC then be mature enough to recognize all people can be a threat. What if they were kids wearing polo shirts and everything else being the same? Should he have acted differently? If the deciding factor is looks on drawing a weapon then you need to rethink how you react to day to day confrontations.
The OP does not even know if it is OK for him to CC in his "work clothes". He should! If you are carrying a weapon you need to know the rules of your employer and the laws of your state. PERIOD Oh, that is right, he thought he was not suppose to so he decided to go against what he thought was prohibited.
The OP could have started to escalate the situation IMO by responding to them. If he felt threatened at this point then he should have finished his transaction and left. Why would he even respond to them and then to explain to him his job! His words"I said, forcefully: "Hey, back off, my speciality is Search and Rescue, so why don't you get lost" . Boy that is a way to calm a situation down. Great line. Need to remember that next time I am outnumbered.
If that is his threshold to go and put his hand on his weapon then I would not want to be near him during any kinda of confrontation that we have to deal with it on a day to day basis. Yeah, he was there but all we have to go by is his post. I can see his SA going up a notch but putting his hand on his weapon at this point?
And sorry, a .380? It is a mouse gun.
And finally. He does not know the rules of his employer and he thinks he is breaking them which he is not but in his mind he was (gun rules!) and he goes and complains to the manager and some kid gets fired for having possible friends there. It is OK for him to break a rule I guess. He doesn't even know if they were friends or not. IMO opinion, he was scared, got home and then called the manager while still ticked off.
Remember again: He put his hand on his mouse gun because 1: he didn't like the way they looked, 2: they made a stupid wisecrack 3. one took a step, no signs of weapons, no other dialogue. And think of this: if he was so concerned at this point with his hand on a gun, why on earth did he not leave at that point. Oh, staying to pay was more important.
This guy is the one that needs to go back to a class.
And the pocket carry? yeah, I can see sometimes with a POCKET HOLSTER. But 90 percent of the time? Can't see it. Forgot who said that.
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