The Knockout Game, something to be aware of. - Page 2

The Knockout Game, something to be aware of.

This is a discussion on The Knockout Game, something to be aware of. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This situation has been posted a couple of times b4. Its always worth rethinking. As pointed out, SA is your first line of defense. Unfortunately ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array pappou68's Avatar
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    This situation has been posted a couple of times b4. Its always worth rethinking. As pointed out, SA is your first line of defense. Unfortunately if a CWL holder lethally defends himself after being accosted, he'll be in for a big hastle. Lots of relatives to testify what a good boy the victim was. Maybe it'll take something like that to give these punks pause for thought. Still, better judged by 12 than buried by 6. Lets do what we hafta do to make the BGs afraid of the GGs for a change!


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    I've been avoiding group of teens for decades. If I see a "hang out" group, I'll find a reason to cross the street or go into a building if I must and leave by a different exit. I guess it comes from city living. I never barge through or demand my right to the sidewalk. I just take the long way around and consider it exercise.
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  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    This thread caused me to think of a possibly interesting question. An earlier post said that it is typical for a (single) member of the gang or group to make the attack. In such a situation, would they be considered a single aggressor or would they be multiple aggressors? For the sake of discussion, I consider it obvious that they are a clearly a member of this group. The distinction, as I see it, is one of disparity of force.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    The minute I see a group of teens, I usually maintain my distance when I walk past them. I also raise one hand to my head pretending to rub my head or face in order to provide some defense against a sucker punch. This stuff has been going on for quite a while now, especially in Boston, MA and other New England states.
    Interesting move.
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  5. #20
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    I check out any group of teens, just because of the possibility they might be up to no good, and I certainly am very aware when I visit nearby larger cities. Where I live, the teens groups are nothing to worry about, but the possibility is still there. The chances are good that I know some of them, or they know me, or I know their parents.

  6. #21
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    Disparity of Force is the driving factor here. While the thugs may be unarmed, they intend to do serious harm. Even if only one of the group does the attack, the rest are there for back-up.

    If they pick a victim who resists, you know the rest aren't going to just stand there and let their buddy meet the resistance offered by the victim without piling on.

    Whether one of the group initiates the attack or several of them come at you, you only have about a second or two to decide what you are going to do.

    Whether you see a clear disparity of force or not, once the gun play starts, it's going to be a crap shoot as to how the police view things in the aftermath.

    You should know if you choose to defend yourself with your firearm, you are likely going to be shooting unarmed people and their story to the police is going to stress that you over reacted and they were posing no threat to you.

    They will most certainly try to play the "victim card" and try to get the police to believe you were the aggressor. That can always go either way as to whether or not the police are going feel you were in the wrong or not.

    It's best to be on alert to these types of situations happening and do your best to avoid a confrontation in the first place. But you should have thought out well in advance how you intend to handle such a situation if you ever find yourself in the middle of one, and know what consequences may ensue if you do shoot.

    For me, I have a good attorney friend who used to be a Kansas City prosecutor on speed dial.
    Chesafreak, noway2 and TN_Mike like this.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  7. #22
    Member Array jfnixon's Avatar
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    Good reason to trigger your phone's voice or video recorder if it has one. I'd take it out as if taking a call. I wouldn't be obvious about the video part if I thought it might be provoking. At least you'd have some kind of record of the interaction if, heaven forbid, things go all pear shaped.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Disparity of Force is the driving factor here. While the thugs may be unarmed, they intend to do serious harm. Even if only one of the group does the attack, the rest are there for back-up.

    If they pick a victim who resists, you know the rest aren't going to just stand there and let their buddy meet the resistance offered by the victim without piling on.

    Whether one of the group initiates the attack or several of them come at you, you only have about a second or two to decide what you are going to do.

    Whether you see a clear disparity of force or not, once the gun play starts, it's going to be a crap shoot as to how the police view things in the aftermath.

    You should know if you choose to defend yourself with your firearm, you are likely going to be shooting unarmed people and their story to the police is going to stress that you over reacted and they were posing no threat to you.

    They will most certainly try to play the "victim card" and try to get the police to believe you were the aggressor. That can always go either way as to whether or not the police are going feel you were in the wrong or not.

    It's best to be on alert to these types of situations happening and do your best to avoid a confrontation in the first place. But you should have thought out well in advance how you intend to handle such a situation if you ever find yourself in the middle of one, and know what consequences may ensue if you do shoot.

    For me, I have a good attorney friend who used to be a Kansas City prosecutor on speed dial.
    'Very wise words here. In this scenario, it is very easy to see how a justified shoot will send an innocent intended victim to jail. Mix race into it, and it gets even sketchier.
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  9. #24
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Disparity of Force is the driving factor here. While the thugs may be unarmed, they intend to do serious harm. Even if only one of the group does the attack, the rest are there for back-up.

    If they pick a victim who resists, you know the rest aren't going to just stand there and let their buddy meet the resistance offered by the victim without piling on.

    Whether one of the group initiates the attack or several of them come at you, you only have about a second or two to decide what you are going to do.

    Whether you see a clear disparity of force or not, once the gun play starts, it's going to be a crap shoot as to how the police view things in the aftermath.

    You should know if you choose to defend yourself with your firearm, you are likely going to be shooting unarmed people and their story to the police is going to stress that you over reacted and they were posing no threat to you.

    They will most certainly try to play the "victim card" and try to get the police to believe you were the aggressor. That can always go either way as to whether or not the police are going feel you were in the wrong or not.

    It's best to be on alert to these types of situations happening and do your best to avoid a confrontation in the first place. But you should have thought out well in advance how you intend to handle such a situation if you ever find yourself in the middle of one, and know what consequences may ensue if you do shoot.

    For me, I have a good attorney friend who used to be a Kansas City prosecutor on speed dial.
    This situation may be a good reason to carry a taser. They see and hear the crackle and pop and I bet they will run.

  10. #25
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    Thanks TN_Mike. Good to be aware of.
    BigJon


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  11. #26
    Ex Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
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    Thought provoking scenario,,,, thanks,,,, I now
    have a Game Plan for gang confrontations or a beginning one.

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Disparity of Force is the driving factor here. While the thugs may be unarmed, they intend to do serious harm. Even if only one of the group does the attack, the rest are there for back-up.

    If they pick a victim who resists, you know the rest aren't going to just stand there and let their buddy meet the resistance offered by the victim without piling on.

    Whether one of the group initiates the attack or several of them come at you, you only have about a second or two to decide what you are going to do.

    Whether you see a clear disparity of force or not, once the gun play starts, it's going to be a crap shoot as to how the police view things in the aftermath.

    You should know if you choose to defend yourself with your firearm, you are likely going to be shooting unarmed people and their story to the police is going to stress that you over reacted and they were posing no threat to you.

    They will most certainly try to play the "victim card" and try to get the police to believe you were the aggressor. That can always go either way as to whether or not the police are going feel you were in the wrong or not.

    It's best to be on alert to these types of situations happening and do your best to avoid a confrontation in the first place. But you should have thought out well in advance how you intend to handle such a situation if you ever find yourself in the middle of one, and know what consequences may ensue if you do shoot.

    For me, I have a good attorney friend who used to be a Kansas City prosecutor on speed dial.
    I agree with WHEC724, very wise as the words of Bark'n usually are! As I thought about this since reading the response earlier today, I think I agree with Chesafreak in that this is one of those times where a non-lethal, intermediate option could be a solid move. For the purpose of discussion here, I am thinking pepper spray. I would expect that if you deployed it against the first attacker one of two things would happen: either it would be sufficient deterrent for them to find another target, or the group would start swarm you giving you disparity of force. In either case, it would flush them out in regards to their intentions. The trick, if you can call it that, would be in the rapid escalation and deployment from pepper spray to firearm.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    I agree with WHEC724, very wise as the words of Bark'n usually are! As I thought about this since reading the response earlier today, I think I agree with Chesafreak in that this is one of those times where a non-lethal, intermediate option could be a solid move. For the purpose of discussion here, I am thinking pepper spray. I would expect that if you deployed it against the first attacker one of two things would happen: either it would be sufficient deterrent for them to find another target, or the group would start swarm you giving you disparity of force. In either case, it would flush them out in regards to their intentions. The trick, if you can call it that, would be in the rapid escalation and deployment from pepper spray to firearm.
    I like the thought process but this will be CQB. I don't think there will be time to play the scenario out before you are down...and if you go down at the hands of a gang you won't be getting "up" till they lift the gurney. If you had a clear exit it might give you enough time but doubtful.

    The reason I say this; as a devote of the armed life style you "do" radiate an air of competency/proficiency. Some to great degree and some to lessor but all to some degree. The mob mentality becomes more emboldened with each successful attack and they will escalate to evermore challenging targets. Although these persons are not particularly astute they "are" damn street smart and will quickly learn the indicators coming from a target that will not go quietly into the night. They key/tune themselves to these cues as they want you injured not them. They are well aware of what will happen if you can clear the holster and get into action...

    All this and a buck something will get you a coffee somewhere.
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  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    This thread caused me to think of a possibly interesting question. An earlier post said that it is typical for a (single) member of the gang or group to make the attack. In such a situation, would they be considered a single aggressor or would they be multiple aggressors? For the sake of discussion, I consider it obvious that they are a clearly a member of this group. The distinction, as I see it, is one of disparity of force.
    If the round intended for the "attacker" misses it's mark and contacts a "member" of the group then it get's reported as multiple attackers/disparity of force to the responding authorities. Kidding, but they are there for backup if you resist from the incidents I've read.

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Disparity of Force is the driving factor here. While the thugs may be unarmed, they intend to do serious harm. Even if only one of the group does the attack, the rest are there for back-up.

    If they pick a victim who resists, you know the rest aren't going to just stand there and let their buddy meet the resistance offered by the victim without piling on.

    Whether one of the group initiates the attack or several of them come at you, you only have about a second or two to decide what you are going to do.

    Whether you see a clear disparity of force or not, once the gun play starts, it's going to be a crap shoot as to how the police view things in the aftermath.

    You should know if you choose to defend yourself with your firearm, you are likely going to be shooting unarmed people and their story to the police is going to stress that you over reacted and they were posing no threat to you.

    They will most certainly try to play the "victim card" and try to get the police to believe you were the aggressor. That can always go either way as to whether or not the police are going feel you were in the wrong or not.

    It's best to be on alert to these types of situations happening and do your best to avoid a confrontation in the first place. But you should have thought out well in advance how you intend to handle such a situation if you ever find yourself in the middle of one, and know what consequences may ensue if you do shoot.

    For me, I have a good attorney friend who used to be a Kansas City prosecutor on speed dial.
    Quote Originally Posted by jfnixon View Post
    Good reason to trigger your phone's voice or video recorder if it has one. I'd take it out as if taking a call. I wouldn't be obvious about the video part if I thought it might be provoking. At least you'd have some kind of record of the interaction if, heaven forbid, things go all pear shaped.
    I was thinking something similar. A good reason to buy one of the small digital recorders that we have heard of and keep in on your person and recording in loop mode all the time when out. I think I may check into one this weekend.
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